SS-Ostubaf. Fritz Geiger

[Shane A Beaver]

I have come across some very confusing and conflicting data regarding the career of SS-Ostubaf. Fritz Geiger. Can anyone help clarify the situation, please? This is what I have and what I have found on this website:

1) Born Munich 7/2/11
2) SS NO 60,675
3) NSDAP NO 1,059,405
4) SS-JS "Tolz" 1934
5) Ustuf 20/4/36)
6) Ostubaf 21/6/44
7) 4/35 - 1. /Nachrichten-Abt, SS-VT
8) 4/35 - 9. /"Deutschland" (II. /"Deutschland" 1938 DAL)
9) 5/39 and 7/40 - CO 6. /"Deutschland" (EK1 25/7/40)
10) 1942 - SS-JS "Braunschweig" (according to fellow member of this website)
11) CO I. /Regt.48 "General Seyffardt" (he was replaced at this post by Rühle von Lilienstern, and according to Mark Yerger's review of the latters career, this must have been circa November 3, 1943. However, John Miller's Führerliste as Geiger commanding this unit as of June 1944!!!)
12) July 1944 - III. (germ.) SS-Panzer-Korps (gestr.)/SS-FHA (gestr.)/"Hohenstaufen" (all from the July 1944 W-SS DAL)
13) 10/44 - CO SS-Pz.Gren.Regt.19 "Hohenstaufen" (Mark Yerger). I have no other source for this information.
14) 10/44 - 16/1/45, wounded - CO SS-Pz.Gren.Regt.20 "Hohenstaufen", replaced by Hoffmann (Source: "Im Feuersturm letzter Kriegsjahre"). Mark Yerger confirms the date of his wounding.
15) 3/45 - CO SS-Pz.Gren.Regt.20 (source - John Miller's Führerliste). No other source for this information.
16) 1945 - CO III. /Regt.48 "General Seyffardt"!!! (this website)

All very confusing and conflicting, as you can see. I would particularly like to know what he was doing between the years 1940 and 1943. Did he command I. ?Regt.48 until November 1943, or was it into 1944? When did he move to "Hohenstaufen", and did he actually command Regt.19? I can't believe that he commanded the III. /Regt.48 in 1945. Can anyone prove or disprove this? Did his wounds in January 1945 put him out of action for the remainder of the war? Can anyone help clarify this conflicting data and set the record straight, please/ thanks in advance.

[Mikedc]

Hello Jamie,
I've the following, hopefuly it doesn't complicate things even further.

Promoted to SS-Ostuf on 20-4-1936
From 4-35 till ??-38 he served with 9./II./SS-Standarte 'D'
From ??-38 till 5-39 he served with II./SS-Standarte 'D'.
Promoted to SS-Hstuf on 20-4-1939.
From 5-39 till ??-42 he commanded 6. Kp./II. Btl./SS-Inf.-Rgt. 'D'.
Promoted to SS-Stubaf on 21-6-1942.
In 1942 employed at SS-Junkerschule Braunschweig.
In 1944 also with SS-FHA.
From ??-6-44 till 10-7-44 he commanded I. Btl./48. SS-Fr.-PzGr.-Rgt. 'General Seyffardt'.
From 10-7-44 till 23-7-44 he commanded(he succeede R. Gruber)the SS-PzGr.-Rgt. 20.
From 23-7-44 till ??-2-45 he commanded(he succeeded E. Zollhöfer)the SS-PzGr.-Rgt. 19.
From 1-1-45 till 8-1-45 he was temporarily commander(he succeeded F. Knöchlein)from SS-Pz.-Gren.-Rgt. 23 'Norge'.
He received the 1939 EK II, the 1939 EK I and the KVK II
Died on 13-8-1974.

Greetings, Mike

[Shane A Beaver]

Hello Mike,

This no criticism of you or any other member of this site, but the reference to Geiger commanding Regt. "Norge" simply baffles me. I have a copy of Wilhelm Tieke's "Im Feuersturm letzter Kriegsjahre", regarding the histories of "Hohenstaufen" and "Frundsberg". He claims that "Hohenstaufen" was reformed in October 1944, with Geiger commanding Regt.20 until wounded on January 16, 1945. If that is true, how on earth could he be commanding "Norge" on the dates you have given? Furthermore, "Hohenstaufen" was on the Westfront and "Norge" on the Eastfront!!! In Tieke's other work, "Tragödie um die Treue", he claims that Knochlein was succeeded as commander of "Norge" by Wilhelm Korbel, previously commander of SS-Pz.Gren.Ausb. und Ersatz-Btl.5.

Tieke also states that the commander of Regt.19, Harro Woith, was killed by enemy artillery fire on June 30, 1944, and that Zollhofer succeeded him. Zollhofer was still in command as of July 16, but by mid-August it would appear that both Regts 19 and 20 were so badly decimated that they were grouped into what he calls SS-Pz.Gren.Regt. "Hohenstaufen", with Zollhofer in command. As stated above, Regts 19 and 20 were reformed in October 1944, and Zollhofer continued as commander of Regt.19. Tieke has Zollhofer being succeeded as commander of Regt.19 by Max Seela, but he doesn't say when that took place. Seela was in command as of March 22, 1945.

As for Gruber, Tieke states that he was commanding the III. /Regt.20 from formation and that he was still in command as of August 4, 1944. However, he also states that Gruber was temporary commander of Regt.20 before Geiger, but he gives no dates. I believe it must have been around mid-August 1944 shortly before Regts 19 and 20 were combined under Zollhofers command, and before they were reformed.

As for I. /Regt.48, Rühle von Lilienstern was awarded the Knights Cross for that command on February 12, 1944, and according to John Millers "Führerliste" he held command of that unit until April 29, 1944. In "Tragödie um die Treue", Wilhelm Tieke makes no reference to Rühle von Liliensterns command of the I. /Regt.48, but he does state that Geiger was replaced at that command by Troger. So, it might be possible that Geiger succeeded Rühle von Lilienstern at the end of April 1944 and held command until July 10, 1944, as you suggest.

As I said, no criticism intended, but all is still very baffling, and I hope that I haven't made matters worse!

[John P. Moore]

It appears that Mike may be partly correct about Geiger commanding Rgt. "Norge", but in 1944 and not 1945. Note the below document from Geiger's Personalakte.

And Shane my name is Moore, not Miller!

[Shane A Beaver]

Many thanks for your reply, John. Sorry about getting your name wrong! So, the July Waffen-SS DAL was correct. It states that Geiger was with 3rd (germ.) SS-Panzer-Korps (gestricken), SS-FHA (gestricken), Hohenstaufen. There is no mention of "Norge", however. I have Knochlein as commander of "Norge" from March 13, 1944 (succeeded Stoffers) to January 1, 1945, replaced by Korbel. It looks as if Geiger was commander of the I. /Regt.48 until July 10, 1944, as Mike and others suggest, and that he remained on the same sector of the Eastern front with "Norge" until wounded towards the end of July. However, did he temporarily succeeded Knochlein as regimental commander (with Knochlein returning to resume command), or was he a battalion commander? If anyone can enlighten me on this matter, I would be extremely grateful.

[Ignacio]

Fritz Geiger led 10./Deutschland from 08/36 to mid-1938, when he assumed command of the 6./Deutschland, which he led until 10/40.
Reassigned to the UFS Lauenburg, Geiger was then transferred again to the JKS Braunschweig, where he led Lehrgruppe B in the 8.Kriegsjunkerlehrgang (06/42 - 12/42) and Lehrgruppe A in the 9.KJL (02/43 - 05/43).
In late July 1943 he was appointed Kdr. of the eventual III./SS-Freiw.Pz.Gr.Rgt. 48 (initially 1.niederl.Pz.Gr.Rgt.).
In late January 1944 or early February 1944 he took over command of the I./Rgt. 48 succeeding Hastuf. Rühle von Lilienstern, who had been severely wounded in late January. In mid-May 1944 Geiger became Commander of SS-Feld-Ersatz-Btl. 54 (probably after von Lilienstern had returned from convalescence). Sorry I have no information about his service with Norge beyond the document in his personal file posted by John.
With effect 10/10/44 Geiger was reassigned to the Hohenstaufen division, where he assumed leadership of SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 19 according to the massive divisional history by Herbert Fürbringer. According to this author, he was leading this regiment on 20/12/44 and 26/12/44 (pags. 486 and 492), until wounded in mid-January 1945.

A very interesting source, though in Dutch language, is the multi-volume work "Nederlandse vrijwilligers in Europese krijgdienst" by Vincx and Schötanius.

Hope this helps

Ignacio


P.D. Shane, many thanks for your congratulations for Spain winning the Football World Cup, a well deserved prize won by a wonderful team.

[Pena V]

Here is a summary of Osbf Fritz Geiger's career based mainly on this thread:

Aug 1936 - Mid 1938 10./SS-Standarte "Deutschland"
- Based on Ignacio's info. My files have slight overlaping in both ends as follows: CO until 01 Oct 1936 Usf Karl Gesele and Osf Karl Gesele again succeeding Karl Praefke 01 May 1938. Maybe somebody can sort this out?

Mid 1938 - Oct 1940 6./SS-Standarte "Deutschland"
- Based on Ignacio's info. The exact dates are most likely 01 Jul 1938 when Osf Hans Bissinger gave up the command and 15 Oct 1940 when Hans Koop assumed the command.

Staff/SS-Unterfuhrerschule "Lauenburg"
- Based on Ignacio's info. This is new info to me. (Oct 1940? - Jun 1942?)

Jun 1942 - May 1943 Staff/SS-Junkerschule "Braunschweig"
- Based on Ignacio's info. Geiger might have been in the books of Braunschweig up to Jun 1943.

Late Jul 1943 - Jan/Feb 1944 III/SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 48 "General Seyffardt"
- Based on Ignacio's info. This is new info to me. Whom did Geiger succeed and who succeeded him?

Jan/Feb 1944 - May 1944 I/SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 48 "General Seyffardt"
- Based on Ignacio's info. Succeeded Hans Ruhle von Lilienstern who was WIA end Jan 1944 and was succeeded by Hans Ruhle von Lilienstern.

May 1944 - (10 Jul 1944?) SS-Feld-Ersatz-Bataillon 54
- Based on Ignacio's info. This is new info to me.

10 Jul 1944 - 23 Jul 1944 SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 20
- Mike's info is similar to mine. Succeeded Sbf Rudolf Gruber and was succeeded by Osbf Emil Zollhöfer.

(23 Jul 1944?) - End Jul 1944 SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 23 "Norge"
- This is a mystery. Osbf Fritz Knöchlein held officially the command until 01 Jan 1945.

End Jul 1944 WIA

10 Oct 1944 - 16 Jan 1945 SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 19
- Based on Ignacio's info. Succeeded Osbf Emil Zollhöfer and was succeeded by Sbf Max Seela.

16 Jan 1945 WIA

Mar 1945 SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 20
- Based on Shane's info. Did he succeed Osbf Emil Zollhöfer? Osbf Bernhard Hoffmann took over the command 24 Mar 1945.

1945 III/SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 48 "General Seyffardt"
- Based on Shane's info. Odd but possible in the last months especially because...

1945 - 08 May 1945 SS-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 3
- !

Promotions:
20 Apr 1935 Untersturmfuhrer
20 Apr 1936 Obersturmfuhrer
20 Apr 1939 Hauptsturmfuhrer
21 Jun 1942 Sturmbannfuhrer
21 Jun 1944 Obersturmbannfuhrer

Regards,

Pena V

PS I'm not surprised if I have to change something in the near future!

[Regiment Norge]

Many thanks for your reply, John. Sorry about getting your name wrong! So, the July Waffen-SS DAL was correct. It states that Geiger was with 3rd (germ.) SS-Panzer-Korps (gestricken), SS-FHA (gestricken), Hohenstaufen. There is no mention of "Norge", however. I have Knochlein as commander of "Norge" from March 13, 1944 (succeeded Stoffers) to January 1, 1945, replaced by Korbel. It looks as if Geiger was commander of the I. /Regt.48 until July 10, 1944, as Mike and others suggest, and that he remained on the same sector of the Eastern front with "Norge" until wounded towards the end of July. However, did he temporarily succeeded Knochlein as regimental commander (with Knochlein returning to resume command), or was he a battalion commander? If anyone can enlighten me on this matter, I would be extremely grateful.

Hi Shane!

This document posted by John Moore in this topic is very interesting, but also extremely confusing. I have been digging in the Rgt. NORGE since the early 1990s and this order to GEIGER lays there as a real pain. Back then, several Btl. commander of NORGE was alive, (LOHMANN and HOFFMANN), neither could confirm any GEIGEr as Rgt.Kdr NORGE. But LOHMANN wrote me several letter of interests. LOHMANN was WIA 2.2.44 and spent much of 1944 in hospital, he returned to the unit late in 1944. When LOHMANN returned he was called into a meeting with Steiner and Ziegler and was told that he should replace Knöchlein as Rgt.Kdr. Lohmann was then an Ostubaf and had passed through a Rgt.Kdr Lehrgang. Ziegler wrote a bad Beurteilung of Knöchlein in the summer of 1944, and both him and Steiner must have been on the hunt for a replacement Kdr. of Norge for some time. Lohmann visisted his old III./NORGE after the meeting and spoke to Dr. Spitzy, who confirmed the bad relationship within the Norge, "there is the whole regiment on one hand, including Knöchleins driver, and Knöchlein alone on the other side". For some reason I do not remember now (writing off-hand) Lohmann replaced Fritz Bunse as Rgt.Kdr 49 De Ruiter. Read the SS-PA on BUNSE, he also got a very bad Beurteilung as Rgt.Kdr 49 De Ruiter. In the SS-PA to Knöchlein he held command of Norge until 1.1.45, but from various norwegian sources there is mentioned that they got a new Rgt.Kdr when refreshing in Pommern in february 1945 (Wilhelm Körbel). Could this Geiger had held the command of Norge in between this short time? I guess that Knöchlein was releaved av command on 1.1.45, then Geiger came along and was replased in Pommern just days before 15.2.45 by Wilhelm Körbel..... Or could Geiger have inteded to be the next Kdr of Norge, SS-FHA issue an order to that but was never carried out for some unknown reason??? The "bad recomondation" written by Ziegler is from june 1944 and shortly thereafter this order from SS-FHA orders Geiger to NORGE....

Both Lohmann and Willi Hund confirmed back then the bad reputation Knöchlein had, it was needed a change in the Rgt.Kdr from Ziegler/Steiner.

Regards

[John P. Moore]

This document from Geiger's Personalakte may help with some of the conjecture on this thread. Rgt. Norge's comments about Felix Steiner and Geiger are very interesting since those two men had a relationship going back to mid-1935 when Steiner was Geiger's first battalion commander and later regimental commander in Standarte "Deutschland".

[Shane A Beaver]

Thanks for that information, John. I have your Fuhrerliste discs, but Geiger's name does not seem to appear on the Personalakte's. However, we still seem to have conflicting data on his career after August 1, 1944.

Shane

[smetanin albert]

About Lilienstern

[Georg_S]

Here is a summary of Osbf Fritz Geiger's career based mainly on this thread:

A

(23 Jul 1944?) - End Jul 1944 SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 23 "Norge"
- This is a mystery. Osbf Fritz Knöchlein held officially the command until 01 Jan 1945.

Regards,

Pena V

PS I'm not surprised if I have to change something in the near future!

Hello

I have now through reliable sources found out that Fritz Geiger temporarely had the command of SS-Pz.Gr.Rgt.23 "Norge" between Fritz Knöchlein and Wilhelm Körbel.

Best regards
Georg

[Georg_S]

Hello again,

I forgot, here is a one of the photos I have on him.
Before the war and in black uniform.

Best regards
Georg