Geheime Feldpolizei in the Waffen-SS

[JoeW]

There was of course GFP units within the Heer and Luftwaffe. But what of the Kriegsmarine and the Waffen-SS. Were they above reproach? The GFP men in the Heer and LW units held positions both in the Sicherheitspolizei and the respective military force.

[lazybather]

Joe, are you asking if the Kriegsmarine and Waffen SS had no crimes worth investigating or.....?

Did the GFP investigate the KM and Waffen SS too?

Or did the KM and Waffen SS have an equivalent of the GFP to investigate crimes?

stuart

[WTW26]

The GFP was responsible for security (in the broadest sense) in a military unit's area of operations. This means they could investigate and apprehend anyone in that area, regardless of branch.

[JoeW]

I'm sorry if my post was cryptic. Of course I was asking in a backwards sort of way whether there were GPF units assigned to the KM and the Waffen SS. We know the extent of their authority in the Heer and LW, but I cannot remember reading of GFP units assigned to the two other armed forces of the Third Reich. The KM had the MKP and the Waffen-SS had its Feldgendarmerie, but were there actual GFP units. This question was prompted by another query in this forum "Could an SS Officer Hold Two Different Positions?" If there was a GFP in the Waffen SS, that officer would hold two positions in the SS: an RSHA officer and a Waffen-SS officer.

[WTW26]

Well, there definitely were GFP units assigned to the navy, according to this article. The Waffen-SS isn't specifically mentioned, so it was probably regarded as part of the ground troops.

The GFP men in the Heer and LW units held positions both in the Sicherheitspolizei and the respective military force.

That's incorrect. GFP members were wartime military officials, not proper military.

[JoeW]

Well, there definitely were GFP units assigned to the navy, according to this article. The Waffen-SS isn't specifically mentioned, so it was probably regarded as part of the ground troops.

The GFP men in the Heer and LW units held positions both in the Sicherheitspolizei and the respective military force.

That's incorrect. GFP members were wartime military officials, not proper military.

I saw the mention of the head of the GFP exercising authority over the KM ? Was there actual mention of numbered KM units like the Heer and LW?

Is this a question of semantics? Military officials vs. Proper Military? I took the question posed to mean could an officer of the RSHA also be an officer of another service? If he was in the GFP, he wore the service uniform and held rank/position. I have an album of a graduate of the SIPO Schule in Charlottenburg who was an office of the RSHA and an officer in the LW GFP at the same time. He served in Kreta as well.

[lazybather]

Thank you Joe.

IMO - If a GFP investigation found evidence of a crime in a Waffen SS unit they were probably obliged to report the incident to the Waffen SS....as they were independant of the Wehrmacht judiciary....

Saying that....Waffen SS sodliers were arrested for delinquency by Wehrmacht Feldgendarmes, (because that was a discipline problem)....so....mayeb they could arrest, but not prosecute?

stuart

[Dieter Zinke]

These links are helpful:
http://home.mweb.co.za/re/redcap/germany.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /GFP-R.htm

Dieter Z.

[WTW26]

I saw the mention of the head of the GFP exercising authority over the KM ? Was there actual mention of numbered KM units like the Heer and LW?

It is said that he was in charge of the field police of the navy and the air force. No GFP units attached to the navy are listed.

I took the question posed to mean could an officer of the RSHA also be an officer of another service?

It was certainly possible to remain attached to the RSHA while serving somewhere else, although that normally meant that they held no actual position in the RSHA for the duration of their service. People like Heydrich were the exception.

If a GFP investigation found evidence of a crime in a Waffen SS unit they were probably obliged to report the incident to the Waffen SS....as they were independant of the Wehrmacht judiciary...

Like all police, the GFP had the power to investigate, arrest and question — at least, where the military were concerned. The actual fate of the soldiers depended on the court martial.

[JoeW]

I don't think the original question has been addressed, has it. Or am I missing something. Was there a GFP-Waffen SS and a GFP-KM, like there was in the LW and Heer. They had their own insignia and units. Was the Heer GFP responsible for those other two branches?

"It was certainly possible to remain attached to the RSHA while serving somewhere else, although that normally meant that they held no actual position in the RSHA for the duration of their service. People like Heydrich were the exception." All-Seeing-Eye, I understand your comment. For example, the LW GFP officer I mention above was a Hauptmann in the LW GFP and at the same time an SS-O'SF in the RSHA and a Krim-Kom, but he held no job in the RSHA, just the rank.

[WTW26]

The term "Marinefeldpolizei" did exist, so yes, there was a branch of the GFP responsible for the navy. The Waffen-SS, as I said, must have been lumped together with the Heer.

[JoeW]

The term "Marinefeldpolizei" did exist, so yes, there was a branch of the GFP responsible for the navy. The Waffen-SS, as I said, must have been lumped together with the Heer.

There was a "Marinefeldpolizei" in addition to the Marine Küsten-Polizei (MKP)? I note in "Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine, 1939-1945" that the KM had their own Abwehr-Gruppe with Stellen in various locations. Their duties were assumed by the RSHA in 1944.

[Georges JEROME]

There is a confusion made between Feldgendarmerie and Geheime Feldpolizei duties.

Feldgendarmerie was a prevost corps which can be found in Heeres, Luftwaffe and Waffen-SS and Marine Küsten Polizei in Harbours.

Geheime Feldpolizei was the "gestapo" of the army in charge of protection of army forces units were attached to front troops, rear area troops or military administration in occupied countries.
Most of them were under Heeres juridiction therefore some groups were put at disposal of Luftflotte: Luftgaukommando in relationship with Ic officer.
GFP 625 was at disposal of Luftflottenkommando 3 in France HQ Paris and Kommissariate in Falaise, Iony, Außenstellen in Deauville, Rennes, Cherbourg and Rambouillet.
no GFP units in Waffen-SS or Kriegsmarine.

In France, GFP units fight against resistance but with the rising of the action of Resistance, in 1942 SIPO SD held these duties and these GFP groups were transfered to SIPO and attached to Kommando der SIPO SD.

Georges

[JoeW]

Thank you Georges for the definitive statement "no GFP units in the Waffen-SS or Kriegsmarine."

I see no confusion between Feldgendarmes and GFP. Totally different. Heer units may have served with Luftflotte, but there were LW GFP in the Rhone training area of the FSJ (Avignon)and up the Atlantic coast. I have photos.