SS-Abschnitt VIII

[Phil Nix]

Führer:
Dr. Walter Graeschke 16.6.32 - 1.12.32
Dr. Ernst Bach 1.12.32 - 6.33
???? 6.33 - 28.8.33
Alfred Bigler 28.8.33 - 2.12.33
Alfred Rodenbücher 2.12.33 - 15.3.1934
Hans Hiedler 15.2.34 - 18.11.34
Karl Taus 18.11.34 - 15.6.35
Ernst Kaltenbrunner 15.6.35 - 21.3.38
Otto Jungkunz 21.3.38 - 5.45
Phil Nix

[Max Williams]

Phil,
I have Bigler only as temporary commander. June 33 - Feb 34 I have Rodenbücher.
Max.

[Mikedc]

Hello Phil and Max,
I've the following:
SS-Standartenführer Walter Turza(stabsführer ??-10-31/23-9-32).
SS-Oberführer Dr. Walter Graeschke(commander 16-6-32/1-12-32).
SS-Standartenführer Alfred Bigler(stabsführer ??-9-32/23-8-33).
SS-Oberführer Dr. Ernst Bach(commander 1-12-32 till 21-6-33).
SS-Brigadeführer Alfred Rodenbücher(commander 21-6-33/15-2-34).
SS-Obersturmführer Franz Schwarz(stabsführer 23-8-33/30-11-33).
SS-Standartenführer Franz Schwarz(staffofficer 8-33/11-33).
SS-Standartenführer Karl Schuster(MWGb Stabsführer 30-11-33/15-2-34).
SS-Hauptsturmführer Heinz Korb(stabsführer ??/21-3-38).
SS-officer Hans Hiedler(commander 15-2-34/18-11-34).
SS-Oberführer Karl Taus(commander 18-11-34/15-6-35).
SS-Oberführer Ernst Kaltenbrunner(commander 15-6-35/12-3-38).
SS-Oberführer Otto Jungkunz(commander 12-3-38/8-5-45).
SS-Sturmbannführer Wilhelm Stichnoth(stabsführer 21-3-38/8-5-45).

Greetings, Mike

[Max Williams]

During part of his tenure as Abschnitt commander, I believe Rodenbücher was engaged on other duties and Bigler stood in for him for this period.
Max.

[BB-WA]

Hi Phil
I have this info for Dr. jur. Ernst Bach from my Hauptamt SS-Gericht file if of any use.

Hauptamt SS-Gericht -
Chef -
00.00.1932. - 12.06.1933. - SS-Standartenführer. Dr. jur. Ernst Bach SS# ?? - (Staf in 32, Obf 24.12.32, Brif 00.00.00, [Gruf 00.00.00]) - zug. 24.12.1932. - 12.06.1933, Chef, SS-Amt. - zug. 01.12.1932. - 12.06.1933, Führer, SS-Abschnitt VIII, Linz, Österreich. He succeeded Dr. Walter Graeschke. It is thought the posting was only a stop gap measure as Bach never left München. - † 12.06.1933 in München -

Führer:
Dr. Walter Graeschke 16.6.32 - 1.12.32
Dr. Ernst Bach 1.12.32 - 6.33
???? 6.33 - 28.8.33
Alfred Bigler 28.8.33 - 2.12.33
Alfred Rodenbücher 2.12.33 - 15.3.1934

According to what I have, although appointed Bach never never left München. Maybe your mystery (???? 6.33 - 28.8.33) period extends further back in time. Who stood in for Bach during his 6 month appointment?

BTW - As Bach died before the 1934 DAL came out I have never been able to find his SS# or later promotion dates. Does anyone have these by any chance.

Regards
Brian

[Phil Nix]

Dr Ernst Gustav August Bach born 26.11.1878 in Herford Party Nr 346398 SS Nr 15587 Final rank Of 24.12.32 Died 21.6.1933

[BB-WA]

Hi Phil
Thanks for the info on Bach much appreciated. For some reason I thought he was promoted higher than SS-Oberführer.

Regards
Brian

[BB-WA]

Hi Mike
I see you have 2 Franz Schwarz as Stabsführer. I believe the Franz Schwarz you need is this one

28.08.1933. - 30.11.1933. - SS-Obersturmführer. Franz Schwarz SS# 54 933 - (m.d.W.d.G.b.) - (Stuf 21.03.33, Ostuf 03.09.33, Shauptf 08.12.33, Stubaf 15.09.35, Ostubaf 13.09.36, Staf 00.00.00, Obf 00.00.00, [Brif 30.01.44]) - SS-Personalbehfel #9 - 10.10.1933. - Trans. as Führer z.b.V., SS-Oa. Donau
Info from the SS-Personalbehfel #9 - 10.10.1933, and SS-Personalbehfel #11 - 26.02.1934.

The other Franz Schwarz is not your man. Don't know what he was doing at the time.
SS-Standartenführer. Franz Schwarz SS# 15 776 - (Stuf 01.12.32, Ostuf skip, Shauptf skip, Stubaf 20.04.33, Ostubaf skip, 19.06.31Staf 11.06.33 -

SS-officer Hans Hiedler on your list I have as an SS-Untersturmführer but can't find any record of him in the SS-Personalbehfel's or any DAL. Seems to be a mystery man. Maybe retired or dissmissed?


Also Walter Turza as Stabsführer but who to. Graeschke didn't assume his post until 16.06.1932, but you have him as Stabsführer from 00.10.1931, eight months earlier.

Regards
Brian

[Phil Nix]

The first Franz Schwarz was the son of SS Oberstgruppenführer Franz Xaver Schwarz
Phil Nix

[Mikedc]

Hey Brian,
Thanks for your info about F. Schwarz 1 and F. Schwarz 2 and yes, I already had F. Schwarz 1 as the son of F.X. Schwarz (thanks anyway Phil). So yes, the SS-Staf F. Schwarz never was Staffofficer with SS-Abschnitt VIII, I just mixed him with the SS-Ostuf F. Schwarz(from whom I thought he was SS-Staf in 1933 already).
F. Schwarz 1 was promoted to SS-Oberführer on 30-1-1942.

Thanks for the info about Hiedler as well Brian, didn't had any info about him. And regarding the info about the Stabsführers from this SS-Abschnitt, did find this info on the internet(but can't find that site anylonger). So I really can't tell why Turza became Stabsführer six months before Graeschke became CO from this Abschnitt.

Greetings, Mike

[BB-WA]

A bit more on Hans Hiedler . I have also found him as a SS-Sturmbannführer.

Führer, Abschnitt VIII -
15.02.1934. - 18.11.1934. - SS-Sturmführer. Hans Hiedler -

Führer, 52. SS-Standarte "Unter-Enns", HQ Krems - b. Abschnitt VIII -
26.07.1933. - 00.09.1935. - SS-Sturmbannführer. Hans Hiedler

These posts seem to be in personal union, nothing unusual there. Obviously he can't be both ranks. Maybe his final rank was SS-Sturmbannführer at some later point in time. Some people write their lists in this way and not the actual rank at the time of appointment.

In any case I still can't find him in any DAL I have. Do any of our more knowledgeable members have any info on this mystery man?

Regards.
Brian

[Phil Nix]

No trace in the 1934 or 1935 Dal.Is it possible he was Austrian in which case he , if still in Austria,would not appear in any DAL until 1938
Phil Nix

[Mikedc]

Hello Phil,
Thanks for pointing out that Hiedler might have been Austrian. I did check my files on Austrian SS-officers and yes, there he is.
Hans Hiedler: Austrian.
Member NSDAP(nr. ??).
Member SS(nr. ??).
He got promoted to SS-Sturmführer on 24-12-1932 and from 26-7-1933 till September 1935 he was commander(he succeeded R. Kaaserer)from the 52. SS-Standarte ‘Unter-Emms’(HQ in Krems).
From 15-2-1934 till 18-11-1934 he was commander(he succeeded A. Rodenbücher)from the SS-Abschnitt VIII(HQ inLinz).
On 5-3-1935 he got promoted to SS-Hauptsturmführer.
On 12-9-1937 he got promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer.
He was also Gauamtsleiter.
Died(?)on 16-9-1941 in Vienna.


Greetings, Mike

[Mikedc]

Hello Brian/Phil,
Here you'll find some more info about Hans Hiedler: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Hiedler
On another site I also did find his name and his SS-number could have been 43.389, this site also mentioned the rank of
SS-Obersturmbannführer(assuming this is the same H. Hiedler as we discussed here).

Greetings, Mike