Can somone help me?

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TalkingZero
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Can somone help me?

#1

Post by TalkingZero » 17 May 2011, 02:56

I was wondering if someone could help me with the whole SS structure and everything. I think i get it but i need somone to confirm or correct what i know. If anyone can help i would greatly appreciate it and finally understand correctly :)

Here's what i think is correct to detail...(Please forgive my spelling on german words >.<)

Early Reich
There were two major public groups once Hitler became chancelor. The Sturmabteillungen (SA) and the Schutzstaffel (SS). The SA were the country's bullyboys, fanaticals running around spreading the Nazi beliefs by beating up jews and burning shops. However, the military always maintained a political power. When the military learned the SA wanted the right to bear arms, they panicked and went to Hitler for help. He agreed to eliminate the SA, but in return the SS would then have the right to bear arms. So after the night of the long knives, or during, the leader of the SA Röhm was killed by the SS.

Rank structure
The first group in the SS were the Allgemeine. These were the model SS troops, mainly just marching on streets making the uniform and group look good to the public. After this, the Sicherheitsdienst became the SS secret security headquarters. Later on, Himmler would combigne the Sicherheitsdienst with the Sichrhetspolizei and form the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA). This became the Reich HQ. From here, other divisions were made such as Totenkopfverbände. Along side them, Einsatzgruppen and the Gestapo worked together to round up and dispose of unwanted people.

Cont
The peoples group was the Verfügungstruppe. This was the political SS and worked in streets and cities alongside the police. Hitler had his own personal bodyguards known as Leibstandarte. These troops were loyal to Hitler and followed him. Leibstandarte, was part of 4 Waffen-SS divisions, Leibstandarte, Deutschland, Der Führer and Germania.

Kelvin
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Re: Can somone help me?

#2

Post by Kelvin » 17 May 2011, 11:25

TalkingZero wrote:I was wondering if someone could help me with the whole SS structure and everything. I think i get it but i need somone to confirm or correct what i know. If anyone can help i would greatly appreciate it and finally understand correctly :)

Here's what i think is correct to detail...(Please forgive my spelling on german words >.<)

Early Reich
There were two major public groups once Hitler became chancelor. The Sturmabteillungen (SA) and the Shutzstaffle (SS). The SA were the country's bullyboys, fanaticals running around spreading the Nazi beliefs by beating up jews and burning shops. However, the military always maintained a political power. When the military learned the SA wanted the right to bear arms, they panicked and went to Hitler for help. He agreed to eliminate the SA, but in return the SS would then have the right to bear arms. So after the night of the long knives, or during, the leader of the SA Rohm was killed by the SS.

Rank structure
The first group in the SS were the Allgemeine. These were the model SS troops, mainly just marching on streets making the uniform and group look good to the public. After this, the Sicherheitsdienst became the SS secret security headquarters. Later on, Himmler would combigne the Sicherheitsdienst with the sicheist polizei and form the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA). This became the Reich HQ. From here, other divisions were made such as Totenkopfverbande. Along side them, Einzatsgruppen and the gestapo worked together to round up and dispose of unwanted people.

Cont
The peoples group was the Verfugungstruppe. This was the political SS and worked in streets and cities alongside the police. Hitler had his own personal bodyguards known as Leibstandarte. These troops were loyal to Hitler and followed him. Leibstandarte, was part of 4 Waffen divisions, Leibstandarte, Deutchland, Der fuhrer and germania.
The part on early Reich was right.

Regarding rank structure, SS had two sections : Allgemeine SS and Waffen-SS. The former one was administration unit, political unit, or concentration camp administration.
Another was Waffen-SS, miliary unit for war.

The origin of Verfügungstruppe was political readiness unit for maintaining order in party rally in the whole of Germany or distruping other party's rally. Later this unit become part of Waffen-SS. The unit in Hamburg area became Standarte Germania and the units in Bavaria and Wurttemberg became Standarte Deutschland. After annexation of Austria in 1938, another unit : Standarte Der Fuhrer was formed by recruiting Austrian volunteers. These three units : Deutschland, Germania and Der Führer formed the core of SS Verfügungsdivision. (SSVT) This was first of four Waffen-SS Division.

Hitler 's bodyguard unit under Sepp Dietrich also received military training and became another motorized division.

Totenkopfverbande ( Concentration Camp guards) under Theodor Eicke also formed another Divison : Totenkopf Division (SSVT)

The last divison was Polizei-Division, recurited from German police force which was under Himmer's control.

This was the first four Waffen SS Divisons.

Later, Standarte Germania was detached from SSVT and joined with Standarte Nordland and Westland to form Division Germania and later renamed Wiking.

SSVT division later changed name to Das Reich. ( Deutschland and regiment Der Führer were the main core of this unit)


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TalkingZero
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Re: Can somone help me?

#3

Post by TalkingZero » 17 May 2011, 16:09

Oh, okayy. So the Verfügungstruppe were like the politic police. Supporting the nazi party and making other partys fail. And the Allgemine worked within the countries, but never fought in battle ?
So if i think i get it, Totenkopfverbände was Allgemeine, but the Division Totenkopf was Waffen-SS.

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Re: Can somone help me?

#4

Post by ljadw » 17 May 2011, 16:57

TalkingZero wrote:Oh, okayy. So the Verfügungstruppe were like the politic police. Supporting the nazi party and making other partys fail. And the Allgemeine worked within the countries, but never fought in battle ?
So if i think i get it, Totenkopfverbände was Allgemeine, but the division Totenkopf was Waffen-SS.
Yes and no :there was no clear distinction between WSS and Allgemeine SS.
The SS Verfügungstruppe were not like the political police (that was the Gestapo) ,they were troops at the disposition of Hitler,but,without any clear mission .

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TalkingZero
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Re: Can somone help me?

#5

Post by TalkingZero » 17 May 2011, 18:18

Okayy...
Soooo, the Verfügungstruppe were nazi supporters, that helped the party in whatever ways they can and being apart of the SS. So, they were like the next level up official nazi supporters group. Sorry if i'm being a bother :(

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Re: Can somone help me?

#6

Post by ljadw » 17 May 2011, 19:49

Well,no:préwar ,the mission of the SSVT was unclear . It could be a paramilitary group,with as function to crash revolts,or be a military group :4th part of the WM,this was advocated by its chief (Hausser,a former army general),but,the army was bitterly opposed .
Whatever,préwar,the effectifs of the SSVT were negligible :less than 15.000

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TalkingZero
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Re: Can somone help me?

#7

Post by TalkingZero » 17 May 2011, 22:29

......soooo uniformed people that didn't really have a cause?
If i'm not right then forget about it -_-

murx
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Re: Can somone help me?

#8

Post by murx » 08 Jun 2011, 18:38

From 1918 until 1923 armed troops of the communist organisations tried to install a copy of the Soviet Republic in the Reich. Munich, Bremen and Hamburg temporarily were taken and declared to be communist republics. Red armies of Bavaria and the Ruhr-Area were founded. The armed communist troops outnumbered the official army of 100.000 men, left by Versailles, by another 100.000 men . In the attached graphic some examples of communist battle plans and locations of troop contingents are shown. Those revolutions violently were terminated by regular troops or paramilitary troops from the former Reichswehr. On the communist side Italians, Poles, Czechs and Russians joined the "revolutionary movements".

Those fights lasted until 1923/1924.

In 1924 4 major paramilitary organisations were founded or already existed, officially to protect party conventions:

"SA" (Sturmabteilung/Storm Department) organized by the NSDAP,
"Republikanisches Reichsbanner Schwarz Rot Gold" or simply "Reichsbanner" : (Republican Reich's Banner Black/Red/Gold) Social Democratic fighting organisation
"Roter Frontkämpferbund" (Red Front Fighter's Union) by the communist party KPD
"Stahlhelm" (steel helmet): conservative right-wing troops supporting DVP and DNVP (Deutsch-Nationale Parteien)

In the year 1931 the statisticians counted 8248 political murders in the Reich territory, 4699 killed activists of the NSDAP, 625 dead Stahlhelm-troopers, 1228 killed communists and 1696 Reichsbanner-members. By far the most violent group were the communists.
The Reichsbanner had approx. 6000 members, the SA developped from 600 members in 1928 to 3200 "fighters" in 1931 and then went up to 15.000 in 1932. No data for the others are known to me.

In summary it cannot be said so easily that the SA was the only or the chief author group of violence and terror in the Weimar Republic.

The SS, founded in 1925 as Hitler's personal body guards, was a subgroup of the SA from 1926 to 1934.

Sources: ‘Wir sind die Soldaten der Republik!’ Das Berliner Reichsbanner und die Politische Gewalt 1930 – 1933
Doctor thesis, Universiteit Utrecht, August 2007, Camiel Oomen.

Dreetz, Geßner, Sperrling: Bewaffnete Kämpfe in Deutschland 1918-1923, Mlitärverlag der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik, 1987
Präsentation1.jpg

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TalkingZero
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Re: Can somone help me?

#9

Post by TalkingZero » 09 Jun 2011, 16:54

Whooooah, that's a lot of info. Thanks Murx, but i need a bit of time to understand it all xD

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Stuckes58
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Re: Can somone help me?

#10

Post by Stuckes58 » 09 Jun 2011, 20:02

hi,
the first book i ever bought when i first started my researching and interest was Robin Lumsden's "Himmlers SS: Loyal to the Deaths Head". it talks in depth regarding its origins and early development, then talks about the general organisation on the SS and its duties describing the functions of the SS-VT and other grups within the SS. it also discusses the development of the Waffen SS and its organisation etc. its a great reference book and has some good pictures within it making it a great book to get you on your way to understanding the SS more. certainly helped me


herr stuckes

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TalkingZero
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Re: Can somone help me?

#11

Post by TalkingZero » 10 Jun 2011, 16:25

I have this bigass book called Waffen that taught me alot. I should really read that again

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