Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

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Stephen W. Richey
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Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#1

Post by Stephen W. Richey » 30 Nov 2016, 00:03

Howdy to Everybody, it's great to be here as a newbie making my first post. My apologies if I'm bringing up a topic which has already been beaten too much. But, I'm still trying to figure out precisely where, when, and how Kurt Meyer changed into a Wehrmacht uniform. I have already read quite a number of relevant posts on this forum and the impression I get is that there is a lot of confusion and uncertainty among the super-smart people in this forum regarding this topic. I own a copy of "Grenadiers." The English-language edition I have is the one published in 1994 by J. J. Fedorowicz. On the bottom of page 176, Meyer describes how, when he surrendered to the Belgian resistance fighters, some of the fighters moved to assault him but the leader of the fighters immediately made a hand gesture restraining his men. Based on this anecdote, it seems plausible that Meyer could have been wearing either an SS or Wehrmacht uniform at this point in the narrative. On the bottom of page 177 and the top of page 178, Meyer describes how an American soldier who was fluent in German said to Meyer, "For God's sake, don't tell them who you are. Your soldiers are badly treated farther to the rear." To me, this strongly suggests that Meyer had already changed into a Wehrmacht uniform by this point in the story. On page 180, Meyer gives a vague description of how he ditched his paybook: "The paybook disappears with lightning speed. I realise [spelling error in the original] too late that the pipes are broken and that my identification will only be delayed for a few hours." In the next paragraph, Meyer writes, "My filthy jacket is taken from me by the partisans, and I watch them going through the pockets looking for my papers. Will I be as lucky in the future?" It seems obvious to me that the jacket the partisans searched must have been a Wehrmacht jacket. If it had been an SS jacket, Meyer's fate would already have been sealed. The maddening thing is that I have read the relevant pages of "Grenadiers" several times over, but Meyer *never* explicitly says something like "On this day at this hour at this location I took off and threw away my SS jacket and put on a Wehrmacht jacket." Is he still trying to hide something years after the fact when he is writing his book? Or is he just sloppy and careless in writing his narrative? Can anybody help? Thanks!

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Simon H
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#2

Post by Simon H » 30 Nov 2016, 13:32

In truth I doubt he could clearing recall when it happened. I too have thought about this in the past but had assumed he had acquired Wehrmacht uniform once incarcerated by the Allies and had not had the opportunity to change (dash into a phone box like superman) ;)
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken Identification.


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seaburn
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#3

Post by seaburn » 30 Nov 2016, 18:06

I haven't got the book to hand but was he not insisting he was wearing a camo jacket which does not have the SS runes on it when captured ?- he certainly went into more detail on the camo badges of rank on the sleeves while in captivity as the Heer Generals were very sniffy about it in Trent park when he arrived ...he would not have been in the Heer jacket on capture but once he was aware that the SS were being shot (as he claimed Max Bornhof was) then he would have been most wise to dump it ... Probably after he was saved from instant execution by the friendly German speaking American soldier before he got to the hospital.

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Harro
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#4

Post by Harro » 30 Nov 2016, 19:36

Indeed, his camouflage uniform had no SS badges apart from the skull on his cap which no doubt he lost at some point before he was captured. He could only be identified by his Soldbuch which is why he got rid of it. I'd say he was stripped out of his camo gear when he was put to bed in the hospital and that he got the Heeres uniform as a replacement when he left the hospital because the filty stuff he wore when he arrived had been disposed of

Image

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Simon H
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#5

Post by Simon H » 01 Dec 2016, 12:25

Presumably he and other patients/prisoners would have been treated with DDT so indeed his dirty uniform would have gone at that point anyway.
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken Identification.

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eindhoven
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#6

Post by eindhoven » 01 Dec 2016, 23:58

According to the 1997 article in After the Battle No 98 written by Jean-Paul Pallud on his capture after KM had been nearly executed in Spontin by a GI, he was taken to Namur with 60 other prisoners.

It was at Namur where Partisan's were executing prisoners.The article seems to rely on 'Grenadiers' for some details while filing in the rest from local interviews they conducted:

"At the time, the place was under the control of the local partisans ('adolescents displaying their red scarves like important decorations', noted Meyer) and the prisoners were immediately line up in the yard, a hail of blows from rifle butts hastening the operation. Meyer noted that 'an American talked insistently to the partisans while pointing to me' and he was soon removed from the lineup and his wounds bandaged. He saw several partisans beating prisoners and was told the they were 'sorting out the Waffen-SS and paratroopers to kill them'. Soon after shots echoed across the yard and, according to Meyer, about 20 Germans were thus murdered.

Obviously, the Americans had decided to spare Meyer from the wrath of the partisans, telling them that he was a Colonel from the 2.Panzer-Division. Explaining to the partisans had a fractured skull (which was not true), they hoodwinked the partisans into having him taken to hospital.

Following a further scare when other partisans eyed him with interest because 'my camouflage jacket seems to be known to them as it identified me as a member of the Waffen-SS', Meyer flushed his paybook down the toilet. His blood-soaked jacket was taken from him and some partisans went through his pockets, looking for his papers. Finding nothing they asked for his paybook and his answer of 'Americans', seemed to satisfy them. It seems that at that stage he was given the uniform of a colonel in the German Army."

Original Caption
"We do not know precisely when this picture was taken but it was probably in the summer of 1945 when Meyer was in a PoW camp in England. The fact that he is still dressed in the uniform of a German Army colonel is in keeping with his capture at Spontin. (US Army)
ScanImage001yu.jpg

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Harro
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#7

Post by Harro » 02 Dec 2016, 08:43

eindhoven wrote:Obviously, the Americans had decided to spare Meyer from the wrath of the partisans, telling them that he was a Colonel from the 2.Panzer-Division. Explaining to the partisans had a fractured skull (which was not true), they hoodwinked the partisans into having him taken to hospital.
Why is this obvious?
eindhoven wrote: Original Caption
"We do not know precisely when this picture was taken but it was probably in the summer of 1945 when Meyer was in a PoW camp in England. The fact that he is still dressed in the uniform of a German Army colonel is in keeping with his capture at Spontin. (US Army)
ScanImage001yu.jpg
In fact anyone can write a caption so it is hardly proof that Meyer already had this uniform in Spontin.

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eindhoven
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#8

Post by eindhoven » 06 Dec 2016, 00:46

Harro wrote:
eindhoven wrote:Obviously, the Americans had decided to spare Meyer from the wrath of the partisans, telling them that he was a Colonel from the 2.Panzer-Division. Explaining to the partisans had a fractured skull (which was not true), they hoodwinked the partisans into having him taken to hospital.
Why is this obvious?
eindhoven wrote: Original Caption
"We do not know precisely when this picture was taken but it was probably in the summer of 1945 when Meyer was in a PoW camp in England. The fact that he is still dressed in the uniform of a German Army colonel is in keeping with his capture at Spontin. (US Army)
ScanImage001yu.jpg
In fact anyone can write a caption so it is hardly proof that Meyer already had this uniform in Spontin.
As I am not Jean-Paul Pallud, the original author of the above quotes I cannot comment one way or another on what his choice of language was meant to intone.

The article in ATB is rather lengthy and I only transcribed the section regarding his uniform in keeping with the original poster's question.

Kurt Meyer wore two different types of two piece camouflage in Normandy. The Italian 1929 Telo Mimetico, shown previously, and the very rare blurred edge two piece of which only one known example survives in a private collection. Both had the subdued camouflage rank insignia on the sleeves. It is unknown which one he was in when captured as the detail was myopic to both Kurt Meyer in 'Grenadiers' and everyone else including Pallud when interviewing those who captured him.

Kurt Meyer, 3rd from right as viewed without cap, in blurred edge two piece camouflage with subdued sleeve rank insignia.
Normandy RK.jpg
Surviving example
Blurred Edge Tunic Normandy.jpg

Stephen W. Richey
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Re: Kurt Meyer - Uniform Switch?

#9

Post by Stephen W. Richey » 09 Dec 2016, 05:22

Friends, I have been away from this board for a few days, so imagine my delight at coming back and finding so many excellent and informative replies to my original posting! My profound thanks to all of you for providing me with fascinating information which is new to me!

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