A query about SS racial criteria...please help

[Davey Boy]

As some of you mey have noticed, I have an interest in anthorpology, genetics and the racial aspect of the Third Reich. I was just looking for some info on what exactly the Nazis wanted in their SS men, and found this little bit:

"Schultz divided his criteria into three parts: racial phenotype, physical condition, and "general bearing." He aimed his set of values to favor the Nordic type. He listed five racial groupings: "pure Nordic," "predominantly Nordic or Falic" [Falic = Brunn], "harmonious bastard [cross-breed] with slight Alpine, Dinaric or Mediterranean characteristics," "bastards of predominantly East Baltic or Alpine origin," and "bastards of extra-European origin." Only those in the first three categories were eligible to join the SS. Schultz also composed a list of nine categories of physical proportion as a guide for the physical examination of SS candidates (Hoehne 1971: 166). Candidates achieving ratings of 6-9 were passed; categories 4 and 5 were only passed after proving "Nordic qualities" in their behavior; while ratings 1-3 were failed (Knoebel 1965: 26). Himmler was adamant that his men be "of well-proportioned build; for instance there must be no disproportion between the lower leg and the thigh or between the legs and the body; otherwise an exceptional bodily effort is required to carry out long marches" (Hoehne 1971: 166-167). As to "Nordic bearing," Himmler put it this way: "The point is that in his attitude to discipline the man should not behave like an underling, that his gait, his hands, everything, should correspond to the ideal which we set ourselves" (Hoehne 1971: 167)."

But I would like to know a lot more. Do you guys have any good links handy? Or maybe some book titles? Cheers.

[Dan]

David, be careful about the word "Bastard". In many languages, it doesn't carry the same meaning as the English. In Afrkaans, when you buy a packet of veggie seeds, they're bilinugal, on one side you may have "hybrid tomatoes" and on the other "baster tomaties". There isn't anything negative about it.

Best
Dan

[Davey Boy]

Dan,

Point taken, but if you were too much of a "bastard" you would fail the test. That could be a good or a bad thing, depending on whether you wanted to rub shoulders with the Third Reich's new racial elite.

[Birgitte Heuschkel]

I often chuckle a bit at the entire race theory of the period. I'd have passed every racial test they could come up with with flying colors. I'm so pure blooded, blond, tall, blue-eyed and pure Nordic ancestry that I should have had a swastika stamped on my butt at birth.

Incidentally, I also have a hospital record half a mile long. I've had more surgery than most people have cars during a lifetime.

[Davey Boy]

Birgitte,

Interesting, because I read somewhere that people of mixed ancestry are usually very healthy because they're genetically rich.

So you're a pure Nordic, eh? Do you know if you're dolichocephalic (or at least mesocephalic) or not? Because being tall and blond is not quite enough. Dolicocephalic means that your head is very long from back to front, and narrow from side to side. There's a (pseudo)scientific way to work it out, but I forget how it's done. This was one of the tests done by the Nazis. A major one, apparently.

[Birgitte Heuschkel]

If you manage to dig up any means of finding out I shall happily oblige -- maybe we can establish even more proof that genetical purity is no guarantee of health

Of course, purity is always questionable, depending on how far you go back in time. There were WAS a Pole involved sometime in the early 19th century, and a Sudeter German just before WWI. But apart from those -- all Danish fisher girl here.

[Kampfhund13]

I'd like to know more about this subject too... I've read a little about the SS standards, one point being they had to have German/Nordic blood lines traceable back 175 years. Roughly 3-4 generations? I'd also like to know their standard on how many generations to "bleed-out" non-German blood...if any.

[Davey Boy]

Birgitte,

I'm no expert in this field, I just do some reading occasionally. And that's what I read once. Actually, this Italian scientist recently revealed that the white race was genetically a mix of black and mongol genes that mixed and developed in their own direction in Europe. And I guess that makes sense when you look at a Greek and then a Laplander. But I'm getting off the topic now...

So yeh, anyone, please, do you have any more details about these tests? That would be fantastic...

[Davey Boy]

Kampfhund13,

Indeed, and I also wanna know is, if a German with predominantly Slavic blood was tall, blond, blue-eyed, long-headed, narrow faced...and generally very Aryan looking, was he allowed to join the SS? As I have pointed about before, many Poles and Russians look like this, but many Germans do not. So what's the story there? Was physical anthropology more imprtant than the family tree?

[mike262752]

I dont know much on the subject but i know later in the war, the criteria was very flexible.

mike

[Indra Ross]

General Anders--did your reading define 'Mogols' I am very curious.

I read the established entry to the SS, differed by Regiment a bit, but it was defined by racial purity which was checked back to 1870, physical looks had to be Nordic, good physical condition (Birgitte - maybe they would have to take that Swastika stamp off your butt later on).

No definite intellectual attainment was required. It seems that before 1938 40% of SS recruits had only a primary education.

The also had to have no previous police record, and be stable mentally (whatever that means??).

Himmler also boasted that only 15 out of each 100 candidates was chosen based on the above criteria. Himmler also had an initial criteria of Anti-Christian beliefs, which I think Thedor Eicke imposed on his men.

Indra

[HaEn]

During the laest part of the war the criteria were: "Can he breathe ?; Can he walk ?; Can he hold a rifle ?; O.K., K.V. Nechst !. HN

[Scott Smith]

Guards Regiments always have certain aesthetic criteria, or looks to go for. Prussian guards regiments, for example, were supposed to be tall, so members of a unit were selected on the basis of height. The closest we Americans have to that is the ceremonial detail for the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or the Marine embassy guards. Now, if somebody were to draw capital out of that they would think that selections for American soldiers were a little kooky. In wartime, soldiers broadly reflect the people from the nations that are doing the fighting not the guys guarding the palaces.

[Birgitte Heuschkel]

(Birgitte - maybe they would have to take that Swastika stamp off your butt later on).

Hmmm, don't think that's a "maybe"

[Birgitte Heuschkel]

During the laest part of the war the criteria were: "Can he breathe ?; Can he walk ?; Can he hold a rifle ?; O.K., K.V. Nechst !. HN

***LAUGH!!!!***