Himmler death body pics

[pacifritz]

I've since had a look online for the picture I so vividly remember, Bart, but to no avail. Hopefully someone on here can remember this picture. It was very closely-shot and harsh-looking [like the flash had whited out a lot of the picture, washing it out, with an almost black-and white intensity, with no greys]: it made it look even more dramatic. Himmler's mouth [if it is him] is open in contorted pain in this photo, unlike others I have seen.

However, the death posture depicted doesn't tie in with other photos of Himmler's corpse, where he looks positively tranquil.

There's loads of studies of Himmler's death-mask casting as I'm sure you are all aware.

[Bart V.]

I've since had a look online for the picture I so vividly remember, Bart, but to no avail. Hopefully someone on here can remember this picture. It was very closely-shot and harsh-looking [like the flash had whited out a lot of the picture, washing it out, with an almost black-and white intensity, with no greys]: it made it look even more dramatic. Himmler's mouth [if it is him] is open in contorted pain in this photo, unlike others I have seen.

However, the death posture depicted doesn't tie in with other photos of Himmler's corpse, where he looks positively tranquil.

There's loads of studies of Himmler's death-mask casting as I'm sure you are all aware.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vZcSmqM69Nk/T ... uction.jpg

Here I can find a close-up but I don't think it is the one you mean?

[Max Williams]

I have never seen a photo of Himmler clutching his throat and I find it hard to believe that he was photographed in such a position. The photographer was called in some time after his death and arranged the body for his photographs.
Himmler crushed a glass capsule of potassium cyanide in his mouth. Hydrogen cyanide poisoning has an immediate effect on the muscles which causes the victim to drop immediately to the floor after inhalation. The effects are instantaneous and painful, incapacitating the victim at once and the poison only takes a very short time to kill. In other words, he would not have been able to raise his hands to his throat.
Max.

[pacifritz]

Bart; thank you for direction visually here, but sadly it's not this one. Almost Egyptian ambience and well worth seeing, though! Many thanks.

Max: I have no reason to make up the story of seeing the picture I so vividly recall. The photo was in a thick, info-packed tome on WW2 [I have read or leafed through so many I can't begin to identify it]: maybe it was a fake Death of Himmler picture, and if I can locate this image I will be more than happy to post it here.

It certainly had me convinced for a long, long time.

[Max Williams]

Max: I have no reason to make up the story of seeing the picture I so vividly recall. The photo was in a thick, info-packed tome on WW2 [I have read or leafed through so many I can't begin to identify it]: maybe it was a fake Death of Himmler picture, and if I can locate this image I will be more than happy to post it here.

It certainly had me convinced for a long, long time.

I am not suggesting that you are making up a story. I just find it hard to believe a genuine photo as you describe it exists.
Max.

[Stuckes58]

if found the picture would be very interesting to look at, but in speaking with my old chemistry teacher who i bumped into today i asked about cyanide poisoning, and she agreed that the poison takes effect so fast that Himmler would not have been able to cluth at his throat in time.

i just hope that someone does find this photo. would be great

stuckes

[Michael Kenny]

i just hope that someone does find this photo. would be great

Beeter not post it or the copyright police will be back in full flow!

There is a recent publication by a Black Watch Veteran ('Black Watch' by Tom Renouf pages 291-294) who opines that it was the abuse and physical treatment Himmler recieved from the soldiers guarding him that caused his death.
Obviously I can not quote from the book....copyright issues you know!

[pacifritz]

I've just looked into the speed in which prussic acid/cyanide kills whoever takes it: there are conflicting theories...some sources state instant death, others say up to 20 seconds:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_can_ ... e_kill_you

I will continue to seek out the 'fake' [?] 'Death of Himmler' picture, and post it here if I find it: even if it is staged, it would be interesting to point out the giveaway signs.

I've just realized: I'm pretty sure that Himmler as depicted had his trademark spectacles on in the picture I recall: this is at odds with the consensus he sported an eyepatch [sounds a bit too obvious] in order to disguise myself when finally discovered; meaning he likely would be sans spectacles when he killed himself......but who knows, maybe the authorities in charge of him after his capture granted him a pair of specs in order to sign documents, etc.


I always assumed that Himmler was in custody for a good while after being identified, and was on the point of being examined by a dentist before taking his life; ---but not according to this account by a British soldier present at Himmler's death [I was amused by Himmler's demands to see a higher-ranking Allied officer]:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z0vUca8S8U

[nobodyofnote]

I've just looked into the speed in which prussic acid/cyanide kills whoever takes it: there are conflicting theories...some sources state instant death, others say up to 20 seconds:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_can_ ... e_kill_you

I will continue to seek out the 'fake' [?] 'Death of Himmler' picture, and post it here if I find it: even if it is staged, it would be interesting to point out the giveaway signs.

I've just realized: I'm pretty sure that Himmler as depicted had his trademark spectacles on in the picture I recall: this is at odds with the consensus he sported an eyepatch [sounds a bit too obvious] in order to disguise myself when finally discovered; meaning he likely would be sans spectacles when he killed himself......but who knows, maybe the authorities in charge of him after his capture granted him a pair of specs in order to sign documents, etc.

It's quite possible if the photograph was staged that someone post-mortem placed Himmler-like spectacles on him for the purpose of the photo ie. people would more recognize him if he had them on, rather than off or with an eye-patch on.

[Max Williams]

The accepted circumstances of Himmler's death are well documented, but there are several conspiracy theories, none of which have concrete evidence.
Himmler removed his eye patch and placed his spectacles on before his transfer to Uelzenerstrasse, Lüneburg, where he killed himself.
I did not say that death resulting from inhalation of hydrogen cyanide was instantaneous. However, incapacity of muscle use is, therefore preventing him from raising his arms. Other effects vary; some victims just make a gurgling sound, others involuntarily convulse.
If you study all witness reports of his suicide, they agree on the circumstances. Himmler was examined by a doctor (not a dentist) who noticed an unusual protrusion in Himmler's mouth. The doctor asked Himmler to open his mouth again and then attempted to reach inside with his fingers to scoop out the object. Himmler turned his head away and clamped his jaws together on the doctor's fingers and crushed the glass file in his mouth. He inhaled and immediately dropped to the floor where those present carried out a forlorn attempt to save his life.
The subsequent photos were staged, with and without his spectacles.
And finally, these photos are over 30 years old and therefore not subject to copyright, copying them from a publication under 30 years old is governed by copyright. Quoting from a book is also not subject to copyright.
Max.

[pacifritz]

Sounds credible as well as familiar to me, Max: many thanks for clarifying these facts.

[Michael Kenny]

And finally, these photos are over 30 years old and therefore not subject to copyright, copying them from a publication under 30 years old is governed by copyright. Quoting from a book is also not subject to copyright.
Max.

A book using photos usualy has reproduction rights not copyright.
There may be more than one photo made from a negative.. Owning I copy of a photo does not give you any right over the other copies of that photo.
You can scan a photo from another source and that does not infringe the copyright of a book using that photo.
I can give you a good number of examples where well known National archive photos are smothered with watermanks proclaiming it to be the propert of 'X'.
This is an area where ego leads many to assume they are the sole owners of any information they discover.

[Max Williams]

My previous statement is absolutely correct.
Max.

[Michael Kenny]

My previous statement is absolutely correct.

As is mine.

[JoeW]

Michael, I find your statement a bit confusing. If someone publishes a book that is protected by copyright, reproduction rights can only be granted by the copyright holder. At least that is what I find in researching this subject briefly.

http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/scope.html

Your other statements regarding period photographs made from an unfound negative are not really germane to Max's comments on copyright law. But I agree that many National Archives photos are purported to be private property.