Romania Artillery

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

According to EBay photo caption, this is a Romanian 8.8cm Flak gun....

Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

A rare image of an 105mm Schneider M1936 gun

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An image from Ebay. 10cm Skoda M1914 howitzer. According to photo caption, Romanian. Is this correct ?

Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Another two images from Ebay. Accordig to photo caption Romanian artillery

I think 15cm Skoda M14 howitzers and 105mm Schneider Mle 1913 guns

Sturm78

[Jendrass]

Hi !

Looking through military archives I found an information, that Schenider company produced some amout of AA 75 mm guns for Romania.
The production took place somewhere +/- 1936/37. Does anybody has some information that could confrim sucha a purchase ?

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Jendrass,

I don't know about Schneider 75mm A/A guns, but, if memory serves me correctly, Romania itself produced (200?) licenced British Vickers 75mm A/A guns in the late 1930s/early 1940s and the machine tools acquired for this later helped with the production of the Resita 75mm dual purpose, light field and anti-tank gun over 1943-45.

Cheers,

sid.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Among my notes I have a story taken from a forgotten magazine article. The item referred to a supposed German liaison mission to the Romanian army circa 1940-41. In short a German officer offered the Romanian artillery arm a training group of German artillery experts. A Roumanian artillery officer remarked that he had seen German artillery methods and such a effort would not be helpful, or needed.

I've long been curious about this alleged conversation & am asking if anyone has come across anything resembling this story? I've very much like to track down anything that collaborates this, this origin, and primary source/s.

Thanks for anyone who can help.

[Denniss]

AFAIR Germany offered advisors to many of its allies. The Romanian ignorance may be true, see their abysmal performance in Odessa region 1941 (shortly afterwards they reorganized many of their units with a german-like org)

[Carl Schwamberger]

.. see their abysmal performance in Odessa region 1941 ...

Thanks, did you have a specific reference for that? Or just a general referral.

[T. A. Gardner]

Hi all,

Another two images from Ebay. Accordig to photo caption Romanian artillery

I think 15cm Skoda M14 howitzers and 105mm Schneider Mle 1913 guns

Sturm78

The bottom photo is of a Skoda 149mm M 14/16. The flat shield is the giveaway. The M 14 has a curved shield.

[Sturm78]

Hi T. A. Gardner

I do not believe that model 15cm Skoda M14/ 6 actually exists, although it is mentioned in several sources. In the book "The Austro-Hungarian Artillery from 1867 to 1918" of M. Christian Ortner it is not mentioned...

Here, another image of an 15cm Skoda M14. Are the soldiers Romanian ??

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Carl,

While an individual Romanian officer might hold such an opinion, it is improbable that he would be in a position to stop such a German training group. In fact, three infantry divisions did receive an apprenticeship in German divisional practice in 1940-41. The trouble was they were only about 15% of the active infantry divisions.

The Germans were not particularly renowned for their artillery at a time when panzer, the luftwaffe and paratroops were grabbing all the attention, so it would not be too surprising of German artillery practice did not elicit the same admiration.

The Romanian artillery was of decidedly mixed quality. The corps artillery regiments had the latest Czech and French motorized 105mm and 150mm guns and were probably quite good by German standards.

However, the Romanian divisional artillery was a hotchpotch of lighter, horse-drawn 100mm and 75mm guns largely of WWI vintage from France, Austria-Hungary and Russia. The German divisional equivalents were heavier, modern 105mm and 150mm guns. Furthermore, unlike the Germans, who used radio, the Romanians still had to use field telephones, which made the employment of their guns less flexible. Unless these material deficiencies were addressed, there was only a limited amount a German artillery mission could be expected to do to improve Romanian artillery.

In the navy the Romanians did listen to the Germans. The Romanians initially followed British practice of adjusting range depending on the fall of shot from the previous salvo. However, the Germans had the practice of not only firing the first salvo but, while it was still in the air, fired a second salvo over and a third under it. This presumably used a lot of ammunition, but increased the likelihood of an early hit. The Romanians switched to the German method in about 1941.

The pyrrhic and qualified nature of the Romanian victory at Odessa, which was the nearest to a major success scored largely independently by any of Germany's allies in Europe, was at least as as much down to crude infantry tactics as poor co-ordination with the artillery. The defending Soviet losses, which were about two-thirds as high as the attacking Romanian losses, probably owed much to Romanian artillery fire.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Still wondering where I read the Romanians opinion. The context might be useful.

Hi Carl,

While an individual Romanian officer might hold such an opinion, it is improbable that he would be in a position to stop such a German training group. In fact, three infantry divisions did receive an apprenticeship in German divisional practice in 1940-41. The trouble was they were only about 15% of the active infantry divisions.

The Germans were not particularly renowned for their artillery at a time when panzer, the luftwaffe and paratroops were grabbing all the attention, so it would not be too surprising of German artillery practice did not elicit the same admiration.

Since my post I have recalled a Finnish artillery officers report cited. in the report there was a remark how the two 15cm battalions of German artillery attached to reinforce his group were not up to Finnish standards in speed of mission execution and accuracy. So, now I have two bits to try to track down.

The Romanian artillery was of decidedly mixed quality. The corps artillery regiments had the latest Czech and French motorized 105mm and 150mm guns and were probably quite good by German standards.

If they were trained in something derived from and similar to 1930s French technique then that might tell me something.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

A Vickers-Resita Romanian gun. Which is the correct Romanian designation: M1936-39 ?

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[Pavel Novak]

...
I do not believe that model 15cm Skoda M14/ 6 actually exists, although it is mentioned in several sources. In the book "The Austro-Hungarian Artillery from 1867 to 1918" of M. Christian Ortner it is not mentioned...
...
Sturm78

Skoda howitzer 15cm M.14/16 exists but difference is just in strengthening in rear part of barrel and some other minor modifications. It was produced from mid 1917. Technical and tactical specification are same as with basic 15cm M.14.