Was HOS insignia ever used ?

[zagreb29]

I've seen the diagrams in some books of the HOS (January - May, 1945). But I've never seen it really used. I've seen a photo of the 'checkerboard' cap insignia but that's about it. Is this one of those things where HOS insignia never made it to everyone and the NDH and Ustasa kept wearing their insignia till the end of the war?

Zagreb29

[Junak1929]

I've seen the diagrams in some books of the HOS (January - May, 1945). But I've never seen it really used. I've seen a photo of the 'checkerboard' cap insignia but that's about it. Is this one of those things where HOS insignia never made it to everyone and the NDH and Ustasa kept wearing their insignia till the end of the war?

Zagreb29

As far as I know people wore their normal insignia before the creation of HOS as one unit simply out of pride; same goes with black uniforms, Crna Legija as a unit stopped functioning but people still kept their black uniforms as a merit I guess.

[zagreb29]

Interesting. I just thought it was because of a lack of actual insignia items. So most units in the NDH and Ustasa wore their old insignia out of personal choice?

[Junak1929]

Interesting. I just thought it was because of a lack of actual insignia items. So most units in the NDH and Ustasa wore their old insignia out of personal choice?

I think you mean most units in the Domobranstvo and Ustaska Vojnica - but I think so, as far as I know there was no lack of anything. Just a change in organization and command in a military standpoint.

[Hrvat]

Of course HOS insignia was used 1944-45, i saw many domobran/ustasa pics with the new breast badge both cloth and metal which went above the right breast pocket (1) (2); pictures of domobrani wearing the new cap badge (4) and collar tabs (9); a HOS officer and an armored unit soldier wearing (3) (5) and pts soldier wearing the new collar tabs (12), all seen in the book HOS by Mikulan and Pogacic. Naturally not everyone got these items and continued to wear their their old uniforms/pins. Uniforms were always in scarce supply for the Croatian armed forces, it was not unusual to see a myriad of civilian/home made tunics. This problem was not remedied until late in the war when Vjekoslav Vrancic assured a shipment of so called 'blue' uniforms from Germany via Finland.









from aukcije.hr

[zagreb29]

Hrvat,

Thank you for replying to the topic. What did you mean exactly by: "myriad of civilian/home made tunics"? Like villagers made uniforms for local soldiers?

Also, where did you read the information about Finn-uniforms being used by the Ustasa/NDH?

I just bought that book CROATIAN UNIFORMS AND INSIGNIA 1941-1945. Which is okay, do you have this book? Would like your feedback.

Thanks again,

Zagreb29

[Hrvat]

Basically people had to make due with whatever they had available, its not that villagers made it. Wether civilian jackets/tunics from peacetime now used in war time or initially at the beginning when the Croatian army was still in formation they used the old uniforms from royal yu kingdom (albeit with domobran modifications to the collar and domobran style hat instead of serb sajkaca), or new m42german or ustasa uniforms.Ironically I even heard that during ndh some domobran uniforms were produced and coming out of serbia, money talks i guess. It was a mish mash or all kinds of stuff. For example, im sure you already heard the famous story of Crna legija making its own uniforms upon discovering discovering alot of black material, the men kept their uniforms even after the unit was desolved. Below i attached a pic of what i mean by civilian uniform, you can see the crna legija soldier in the pic is not wearing an official ustasa jacket (like the drawing) but what appears to be a modified civilian jacket. If you know anything about the brutal nature of warfare going on in bosna at the time you know the main concern wasnt what you were going to wear, you had to make due with what you can get.

The info about the finnish blue uniforms comes from vjekoslav vrancic book: branili smo drzavu, in it he talks about how he was sent many times to berlin in vain in trying to get new supplies, materials, uniforms for the Croatian armed forces but to no avail. Everntually near the end of the war i think Croatia got something like over a hundred thousand of 'blue' finnish uniforms, i believe they were called so because they had a greyish blue tinge. These same uniforms with HOS badges are seen worn by new conscripts late in the war.

About that book i have the Croatian version which came out in 1999, this year they released an english verison i didnt get it because its almost the same book but the english version adds a couple more pics and plates. The english version left out the ustaska vojnica and hos 1944-45 among other units both civlian and military which will be covered in part 2 of the english book which will come out in about a years time.

source: HOS - mikulan, pogacic

[zagreb29]

I did not know about the Crna legija running into a lot black wool and then using it for uniforms. I do know that the Ustasa was more into it's "duties" then worried about uniforms. But I did not know they just wore civilian clothes sometims. I have that same picture and I thought it was a uniform tunic.

Now I read about the Finnish uniforms from another book: FOR CROATIA AND CHRIST but I did'nt take that book too seriously. In that book it says the Finnish "blue" uniforms were used because they were close to uniform-regulations of the NDH. So my next question is that was there a "blue" shade used for a lot of the uniforms like the Ustasa? Here's one of these color photos I keep seeing going around and wanted to know if there is some connection:

Many thanks,

Zagreb29

[Hrvat]

No ustase did not wear ' blue ' uniforms. That is not an official color pic from ww2, rather it is a black and white pic which has been colorized, therefore its up to the artists perception and interpretation of what color he wants to makes thing and should and shouldnt be. Anyone with some skill at photoshop can colorize a picture.

Your right that book for Croatia and Christ has many inacuracies but in Vjekoslav Vrancic's book Branili smo Drzavu, who was the living minister of NDH he specifically dedicates a section about his role in acquiring new uniforms and these finnish 'blue' ones late in the war.

In 1941 Ustasa uniforms were olive green, in 1942 was introduced a green with a yelowish tingue to it which were used till the end of the war. In 1944 units started to receive german style m43 uniforms. Crna legija, armored units and Luburic's Ustaska Obrana units wore black uniforms. In Crna legijas case again becasue of lack of uniforms and due to wartime conditions, black fabric was found, used and made to the specifications of ustasa tunics. This was noticed by the public who started to call them 'crnci' hence came the term Crna legija. Folklore points out during the battle of Kupres the identification between ' crne' ustase (those of the black legion) and 'zute' ustase(regular ustasa units).

Domobran uniforms were mostly grey or brownish green. As already mentioned at the begging domobrans wore modified yu kingdom uniforms; notably lowered collar with Croatian badges and domobran style hat, because at the time it simply was not possible to produce thousands upon thousands of new uniforms for the immense need. Therefore because of wartime conditions and the inability to produce all the new domobran uniforms some started to wear german style m43 uni's (120,000 were introduced in 1944), and some pictures even show people in 1945 in these same 'altered' yu-kingdom uniforms.

Take a look at this pic of the gorazde Croatian militia in eastern bosna, (here you can see everything from ustasa, domobran and civilian uniforms) Source ; ustaskipoket.com

[zagreb29]

Why would someone colorize photos of the Ustasa in that shade of grey if it was really a brownish color lol?

Would you say that the Domobranci wore a color of wool that was a copy of the WW I Austro-Hungarian field grey
wool?

Do you have any photographs of the HOS wearing the Finnish uniforms?

Thanks again,

Zagreb

[Hrvat]

Because the person coloring it made a personal judgement of what he thinks it should look like, albeit wrong. Ustasa uniforms were a grennish yellow.

And yes domobrani wore a grey color similar to that of the Austro-Hungarian forces as the domobrani were also a component of the later and drew their traditions from there

Yes there are pictures of soldiers wearing the 120,000 m43 uniforms which were introduced in 1944 in the HOS book by pogacic-mikulan, these were the bluesih color ones given to Croatia as they did not meet the color specifications of the german army (feldgrau)

[Cassius29]

Doe anyone have any pictures of the HOS with their insignia on their uniforms?