Ustase

Discussions on all aspects of the smaller Axis nations in Europe and Asia. Hosted by G. Trifkovic.
VJ
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#16

Post by VJ » 31 Jan 2004, 18:07

It's not Serbian, unless the Serbian of that age is something very foreign to today's rendition of the language. The latinised version of the above motto is: "Svoboda ili sm-rt-". Note: the hyphens denote letters that do not exist in the Serbian alphabet. The Serbian latinised version would be "Sloboda ili smrt".

My best guess is that it's the insignia of a Russian partizan band. *shrug*

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Allen Milcic
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#17

Post by Allen Milcic » 31 Jan 2004, 20:16

VJ wrote:It's not Serbian, unless the Serbian of that age is something very foreign to today's rendition of the language. The latinised version of the above motto is: "Svoboda ili sm-rt-". Note: the hyphens denote letters that do not exist in the Serbian alphabet. The Serbian latinised version would be "Sloboda ili smrt".

My best guess is that it's the insignia of a Russian partizan band. *shrug*
Hi VJ:

I've had another look at the insignia, and you're right (hm, my Cyrillic reading skills are somewhat suspect) - the first word reads "Svoboda" and not "Sloboda" (B = V, and not L!). To the best of my knowledge, "svoboda" is not a word in the Serbian language. I also took the markings between the 'm' and 'r' and after 't' in "sm-rt-" to be decorative symbols, and not letters? Not so sure about that anymore...

However, the Cyrillic lettering itself does not appear to be Russian (though I admit I am hardly an expert on the matter). It LOOKS Serbian, but maybe it is actually Macedonian (like a VMRO insignia perhaps?).

Regards from Canada.


cybercat
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#18

Post by cybercat » 02 Feb 2004, 00:22

croat wrote: hm, my Cyrillic reading skills are somewhat suspect.
I'm surprised,although I suppose that you didn't have cyrillic drilled into you in Croatia like in BiH and some of the other republics.

Even I can get by in cyrillic (well I used to) - I used to watch a lot of films during and after the war on the Bosnian Serb channel (SRNA) and when a film wasn't in English but say Italian ( a language that I don't speak) I had to read the Serbo-Croatian subtitles to find out what was going on - they were obviously in cyrillic so I had to learn. Also previously I had taught myself so I could read maps and documents "liberated" from chetniks (dead or not so good ;) - dobar cedo, mrtav cedo ;) )

TM2000
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свобо&

#19

Post by TM2000 » 02 Feb 2004, 15:23

It is obviously not in serbian cyrillic. I guess it is Russian. The serbian cyrillic does not have the softening sign ь in the alphabet.

свобода или смерть Freedom or death

>>>>It's not Serbian, unless the Serbian of that age is something very foreign to today's rendition of the language. The latinised version of the above motto is: "Svoboda ili sm-rt-". Note: the hyphens denote letters that do not exist in the Serbian alphabet. The Serbian latinised version would be "Sloboda ili smrt".

My best guess is that it's the insignia of a Russian partizan band. *shrug*<<<<<

VJ has right.

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#20

Post by cybercat » 03 Feb 2004, 06:41

here's a link that I've found that maybe of interest. Check out the essays page, there's a book translated into english about the Montenegrin chetnik exile who claims to have been the man who put two bullets into Ante Pavelic in 1957 leading to his death by complications in 1959.

http://www.pavelicpapers.com/index.html

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Allen Milcic
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#21

Post by Allen Milcic » 03 Feb 2004, 16:16

Hi Cybercat:

Most of the information on this website is pretty lacking...especially this story of the Pavelic assassination. Pavelic (just like Luburic some years later) was shot by a Croat working for the UDBA (Yugoslav Secret Police). Give me some time, and I'll dig up his name and story from my files.

Best regards from Canada!

cybercat
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#22

Post by cybercat » 04 Feb 2004, 10:08

You're probably right...

Za dom maple syrup!

hehehe

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JUF
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#23

Post by JUF » 06 Jun 2004, 16:40

Cybercat... another very rough propaganda website further dramatising events of WWII...

Warmest Regards...
Maybe you have been to my selo.. Vuka?

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Spy
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#24

Post by Spy » 09 Jun 2004, 22:20

Hey to everyone don't believe pavelicpapers.com. Just look at the top of their site, here's the picture:
Image Image


...an "independent" project researching the history of the ustasa movement, 1929-2003

What does that mean?! That the Ustasa movent exists still today!?

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Allen Milcic
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#25

Post by Allen Milcic » 09 Jun 2004, 23:08

Spy wrote:Hey to everyone don't believe pavelicpapers.com. Just look at the top of their site, here's the picture:
Image Image


...an "independent" project researching the history of the ustasa movement, 1929-2003

What does that mean?! That the Ustasa movent exists still today!?
This "independent" research project is a joke. It should be called an "independent propaganda project". Please take anything found on this site with a large grain of salt.

BTW, no, the Ustasa Party, as such, does not exist anymore. There is a lunatic-fringe party called the "HOP" that is its modern-day incarnation - it has never won more than 0.1% of the vote in the Republic of Croatia, and did not even appear in the last parliamentary election.

Allen/

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Spy
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#26

Post by Spy » 09 Jun 2004, 23:38

In my opinion HOP was useful til 1990, perhaps 1995, but today Croatia is already liberated. HOP means - Croatian movement for liberty. HOP didn't won more votes 'cause there are too many parties in Croatia, more than 90 parties (!), so I think that about 80% of Croats don't know that this party exist. You can visit their homepage: http://www.hop.hr

BTW I don't think they're a "lunatic-fringe party" (to be honest I don't know what this mean but it sounds bad). The worse party in Croatia is HNS lead by Vesna Pusiæ.

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Musashi
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#27

Post by Musashi » 09 Jun 2004, 23:42

Dobar vecer Allen.
I remember a cardinale, Juraj Dobrila on Deset Kuna banknote. If I remember well, Croats told me he was responsible for the atrocities. They also said me he was something like "saint" in Croatia.
What is your opinion?
Pozdrav,
Chris

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Spy
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#28

Post by Spy » 09 Jun 2004, 23:58

Hey, Musashi.
Juraj Dobrila is still today on the 10 Kuna banknote, and there's nothing strange about that. He lived and worked during the 19. century in the region of Istria (I think) and he was a good croat and priest.

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JUF
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#29

Post by JUF » 10 Jun 2004, 08:18

They still function to an extent in Melbourne Australia. HOP Mladez are based in the Hrvatski Dom Dr. Ante Pavelica..

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Allen Milcic
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#30

Post by Allen Milcic » 10 Jun 2004, 20:17

> Yet another rude and belligerent posting from Krilnik was deleted by the Moderator <

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