Why reenact the Waffen-SS?

[Daniel]

Secondly, you write "It was also the SS who introduced and developed the camouflage uniforms during the WWII." No. In Germany they were developed by the Army in the mid-1930s, but they were judged too expensive to produce at a time when the Army was expanding massively. This is yet another Waffen-SS myth. The Waffen-SS was simply following Army developments yet again.

What I find difficult to understand is why Waffen-SS enthusiasts so often don't know their subject properly.

It´s true that the Heer were first (or actually second after the Italians) with camouflage zeltbahns. But the SS where first to develop and use smocks, helmet covers, camouflage winterparkas, whole camouflage uniforms (dot) etc. For an example the SS used their first smocks in the summer of 1938 and the Heer used their first in 1942 which were based on the Waffen-SS design.

About the friewilligen and IF they would have joined the Heer if not the Waffen-SS had existed can we only speculate about, we will never know.

[Marcus Wendel]

Let me remind you all that this is the reenactment section and not the Waffen-SS section so let's get back to discussing reenactment and leave the discussions on the history of the Waffen-SS and Heer for the correct sections.

/Marcus

[Sid Guttridge]

Daniel,

I have no particular objection to anyone re-enacting the Waffen-SS, provided that they are aware that in doing so in such disproportional numbers they are, by default, undervaluing the German Army in favour of an institution that was not only adjudged criminal, but owed almost all its military vitues to its association with the German Army. Why re-enact the Nazi Party's political militia, when you can re-enact the real military representative of the German people - the German Army?

I think we are all agreed that we want historical accuracy, so more Heer and less Waffen-SS in all military-historical spheres, not just re-enacting, please.

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CORRECTION ON A POINT OF INFORMATION:

There is no "if" about it. We already do know that the German Army was first to recruit virtually every nationality outside the Nordic states, which were politically preserved to the Waffen-SS from the start because they were classified as "Germanics". The German Army even had to turn down a Czech unit offered three times by the government of the Protectorate because it was politically unaceptable to the Nazis.

[Appleknocker27]

I agree MAJ T. Reenacting the WSS has always been a hot button for me personally, admittedly I somewhat discriminate against people in that uniform. Generally speaking, almost all of the reasons given for reenacting in that uniform are better served by a Heer impression. The real reasons are generally left out and in my experience usually revolve around some sort of horribly misplaced "bad boy" or elitist image (aka. the "Fan Boys"). Perhaps some of these units should reenact the political indoctrination portion of becomming a WSS Soldier and see how many hold true to the "living historian" concept of historical accuracy. Maybe conduct some ethnic cleansing or camp duty. Sometimes at events I openly address these guys in English as "the armed wing of the Nazi Party", not to be abrasive or combative but to more or less provide an occasional moment of reality that they aren't wearing a German WWII SEAL Team 6 costume.

[Daniel]

I'm very happy that I reenact in Sweden and not in the US where the SS-reenactors seems to be real idiots. The Heer-reenactors seems to be very serious and skillful...

[B Hellqvist]

Heh, I guess there are some W-SS reneactors in the US that are less than happy with that assessment, Daniel... That being said, in my contacts with W-SS reneactors in Sweden, I have never felt any bad vibes. Knowing what I do about WW2, the renactment scene, and people with crypto-nazi leanings, I had my feelers out, but the levelheadedness and seriousness among the reenactors I've met have assured me that the number of real idiots among W-SS reneactors in Sweden is neglible.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

My concern is not really about the occasional fanatic.

My worry is that perfectly normal people are being seduced by Goebbels/small-publisher/internet perpetuated myths around the Waffen-SS into distorting the true military-historical record by joining W-SS re-enactment "units" in disproportionate numbers at the expense of the German Army.

One of the main claims for re-enacting is that it is a useful historical tool. It might well be, but it won't serve that purpose if it gives the W-SS a prominence it does not merit.

I think we are all agreed that we want historical accuracy, so more Heer and less Waffen-SS in all military-historical spheres, not just re-enacting, please.

[Appleknocker27]

My worry is that perfectly normal people are being seduced by Goebbels/small-publisher/internet perpetuated myths around the Waffen-SS into distorting the true military-historical record by joining W-SS re-enactment "units" in disproportionate numbers at the expense of the German Army.

Agreed, in the US the "Fanboys" have a healthy following and are generally growing in numbers. For a while I simply moved on to WWI reenacting instead because it is a "Fanboy" free environment.
My favorite SS reenactment experience has to be the WSS Fallschirmjager guys who feel they can operate outside of the overall Axis commander's leadership and attempt to perform more modern day "snatch and grab" or raid tactics (even if very poorly done) in the middle of events. The sense of entitlement (in the US) that goes with those runes is mind boggling.

[Daniel]

My experience from public event from both Sweden and other countries is that "perfectly normal people" don't know much about Wehrmacht and less the difference between the Waffen-SS or Heer, most often they even don't seems to care. Less normal people (?) who are interested in the subject knows quite well the diffrence and they don't need to be thought. Major T, if you will attend at Beltring this summer please come to Das Reich "Soldatenheim" so could we discuss this subject, it would be interesting. The discussion on this forum will go on and on and on...

[Daniel]

Heh, I guess there are some W-SS reneactors in the US that are less than happy with that assessment, Daniel...

I tried to be ironic.

My favorite SS reenactment experience has to be the WSS Fallschirmjager guys who feel they can operate outside of the overall Axis commander's leadership and attempt to perform more modern day "snatch and grab" or raid tactics (even if very poorly done) in the middle of events. The sense of entitlement (in the US) that goes with those runes is mind boggling.

Ok?! Interesting that you also wrote this:

I agree MAJ T. Reenacting the WSS has always been a hot button for me personally, admittedly I somewhat discriminate against people in that uniform. Generally speaking, almost all of the reasons given for reenacting in that uniform are better served by a Heer impression. The real reasons are generally left out and in my experience usually revolve around some sort of horribly misplaced "bad boy" or elitist image (aka. the "Fan Boys"). Perhaps some of these units should reenact the political indoctrination portion of becomming a WSS Soldier and see how many hold true to the "living historian" concept of historical accuracy. Maybe conduct some ethnic cleansing or camp duty. Sometimes at events I openly address these guys in English as "the armed wing of the Nazi Party", not to be abrasive or combative but to more or less provide an occasional moment of reality that they aren't wearing a German WWII SEAL Team 6 costume.

You think it´s a "hot button" to reenact WSS and you even "discriminate" those who wear SS-uniforms but think it´s ok to reenact SS fallschirmjägers. Sounds logical...

[Freiwilligen]

Daniel, Appleknocker's first post there was using HEAVY sarcasm...

[Daniel]

I read it again and understand that now. Apologize.
(As I wrote before I would prefer to take this discussion in Swedish.)


I won´t kick on this dead horse anymore so for me this discussion on this forum ends here.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Daniel,

You write; "My experience from public event from both Sweden and other countries is that "perfectly normal people" don't know much about Wehrmacht and less the difference between the Waffen-SS or Heer, most often they even don't seems to care."

If so, it shows that re-enacting, as an activity, is failing to live up to its educational claims.

[JACK-BOOT]

I agree with you 100% oxlenstein. I know i cant say much but i reeanct as waffen SS right now. Im 24 and ive been reenacting since i was 16. Ive also noticed the massive flux of waffen SS compared to heer soldiers and i couldnt agree with you more that there are too many ss compared to the heer. Since this massive surge of SS soldiers, im actually wanting to go back to being in a heer unit. I will also reenact SS but if im at an event and the SS guys are greatly outnumbering the heer then i will swap uniforms into a heer tunic. Im in the process of purchasing a new heer tunic and looking for a heer unit to link up with. I also agree that it gives the public the wrong impression, we have to try to stay historicaly accurate even if that means swaping uniforms at events to help the heer units not look so small. Thank you for adressing this, i was wondering if anyone else was noticing this growing problem. Take care and best wishes and Good luck on your Heer impression.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Jackboot,

The roots of this problem don't lie in re-enacting itself.

They lie in the media. History channels compete to produce series on Hitler's bodyguard.

These are propped up by the availability of enormous number of specialist W-SS books. You only have to look at the titles announced here on AHF stickies to see that some of them have reached baffling levels of obscurity.

The influence of this feeds through into the massively disproportional number of threads on internet fora devoted to the W-SS compared with the Heer. (AHF, while somewhat prone to this, is not too bad, but look at Feldgrau, where there are currently 2,055 W-SS threads compared with 324 for the Heer!).

It is thus not surprising that potential re-enactors fed on this diet opt for W-SS "units". They are victims of a media that is distorting the military-historical record.

It is good to see on this thread that there is growing awareness of this.