Winter Parkas...again

[siling]

Hi forum,

I've been searching for a M43 Pattern winter parka for a while now. Even though its not really the focus of this forum, I kept coming back here thanks to some very interesting and (hopefully!) informed posts by memebers here, so I thought that its probably a good place to ask.....you guys and girls seem to know your stuff.

I have seen a lot of threads with similar subjects here, and while this isnt really anything new, making a new thread seemed to be a better idea than resurrecting 3 year old threads.

What I'm looking for (apart from cost) is-

Hardiness- while I'm not planning on invading Russia, I do treat my clothes pretty hard. I'd rather have soemthing that lasts.
Fit- No, I dont want to look or feel like I'm doing a michelin man impression, or have size 38 sleeves on a size 44 body.
Construction- I'd really prefer a proper blanket lining over some sort of wool waste or worse yet, poly-fill.
Accuracy- While it would be nice if the camo pattern is real/correct, just in case I ever got into reenacting, its not going to matter much for me if its wrong. Same with the scalloped pocket flaps, etc.

I really liked the ATF 2010 'blurred edge' parka, but by the time I saw it on special they all gone. *le weep* I cant quite stretch to $295 + postage for a 2011, and the 2011 colours are nowhere near as good IMO (If I had the cash for a full-price ATF parka, I'd probably get oak A or B).

But I did see a parka on some airsoft forum that seemed to be using a darker version of the ATF 2010 'blurred edge' colours, but the person said it was from SOF. I would have guessed that meant it was made by S&M, but I just dont know for sure....... Link here-

http://www.airsoftsverige.com/V6/viewtopic.php?p=332197

I know, I'll bet that some of you are thinking 'just get yourself some proper commercial parka, or some more modern army surplus!'. Well, heres why I dont want to do that-

Too_many_pockets/zips/fasteners- I always carry backpack for the items that I dont shove into my jeans/trousers pockets. I'm sick of breaking zips, useless pockets and fasteners that dont.
Artificial materials- Poly-fill has been known to give me a rash, I dont like the 'feel' or anything else about gortex, etc..

If anybody knows a modern parka that fits, I'm willing to have a look. Be warned, I'm as picky as hell with camo, a lot of it I dont like much at all.

With my less than $300 US budget, I spose I'll only be looking at Hong Kong Keith or other asian manufacturers. Not that I could ever find HKK, and I'm not even sure if its just a generic name for HK production or if there is some guy called Keith in Wan-chi somewhere (well, it would probably be the new territories these days) churning out repo heer/SS stuff.

I'm not that worried about asian manufacture, IMO China and India/Pakistan are more than capable of making very high quality clothing. I'd just rather avoid the 'dodgy' manufacturers, and hopefully get a good deal on something that will last, and fit my requirements.

Hopefully somebody can help me out. :

[StigRoadie]

http://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDe ... ode=GUPBE2

[siling]

Thanks, but if I could order a 2010 Blurred Edge Parka I wouldnt have asked here.

Sorry, the following item is currently out of stock: Blurred Edge Parka, 2010 Run - sz 2 41-44

Sorry, the following item is currently out of stock: Blurred Edge Parka, 2010 Run - sz 3 45-48

I even sent ATF an email just to check if there was a possibility of more getting made, or there being one 'hiding' somewhere. To be honest ATFs respose was lame, unclear and in the sort of english I expect from an asian vendor, not a U.S. based company. It wasnt even grammatically correct...

[iladyigirl]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-German-hee ... 5980wt_932
looked like good

[siling]

Hmmm, maybe I should have looked at ebay more.

Nice try iladyigirl, but that black looks like cheap vinyl in the pic. I'd be more likely to get the dot44 version, even though its got horrid 'acid green' dots-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-German-eli ... 231546d9dd

I dont mind this either, even though its not that close to any blurred edge I've seen before-

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/108 ... inter.html

It actually looks more like a Russian camo (MVD SMK pattern from what I can find) than anything else I've seen-

http://havenbastion.org/Groups/Military ... oviet8.jpg

I dont mind the spearhead blurred edge either (red/brown version, not the 'mint'), but they dont seem to do a parka in blurred edge.

The main thing I worry about with the Ant-Z, Spearhead, Richard Fu (etc.) is the blanket lining and how durable or strong the other shell is. I've seen reports of the 'chicom' having 'papaer thin' material, and that would be useless to me.

*edit- I wonder if iladyigirl is pirschen?

[Dieter]

Just get an SM Wholesale one, period. Save your money for it. Remember, "Good things cost money", and a good parka is a wise investment, not wasted money. SMW sells them directly, and also through eBay, ATF, 1944 Militaria, Bill Bureau and SOF in the UK.
Forget the puffy chinese made "Michelin Man" parkas, which are only good as loaner gear. :roll:

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

I have no problems with Spearhead's grey winter clothing, and the sumpf parka from memory1945 is pretty good. They have held up well under bad conditions and are a good cheap alternative especially if you want the trousers to go with it (too many single parkas being worn as it is.) I wouldn't recommend any of spearhead's camo winter clothing though.

[jesse_]

I bought one of the Rauchtarn sold by ATF when they first started selling S&M. These are the ones that are/were discounted.

Not the best for every day wear. Very thin blanketing. Wool? The "wool" sagged a lot after normal useage(no I didnt put it through the washer ) The newer generation offered by ATF may be better (as advertized on their site-thicker blanketing). My fave is my Lost Battalions model. Very warm, keyholes button holes, ect. But no camo. Hopefully they will start up the parkas again.

Sheikh; very interesting comment on Spearhead, can you elaborate on the differance in quality?

Any one else have experience wearing these parkas day to day? Newest ATF generation?
Jesse

[Rittmeister]

Hi, I think he ment SOF=Soldier of fortune ,where it was bought

Link:http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/reenactors/index.asp

it was made by S.M for 150£ (about 241$)

Lennart

[siling]

@ jesse_- I'm glad I didnt see the 'blurred edge' 2010 parkas when I could still find one then. I dont know why the wool would sag, I havent looked at the exact construction of the jackets but I imaging that it would be an easy fix...provided that it actually was a blanket not wool waste.

I doubt that would get a 2011 SWM parka, I really dont need thicker blanketing. I've only ever seen snow once, LOL.I'd be worried about the 2011 getting the sagging fill problem as well.

@ Sheikh Al Stranghi- nah, I wouldnt want the trousers as well. I'd really doubt I'd ever be doing WWII reenactment, so its not going to be a problem with matching trousers/parka. I'd guess that you suggest the grey because spearheads camo is pretty inaccurate, not because of quality differences between the camo/grey, right?

@ Dieter- $300+ (by the time I pay postage) for a SWM parka just isnt going to happen. Far too expensive.

I really dont see how the prices for the parkas is so high......its easy to get M65 parkas for far, far less than a WWII german model. While I havent had a good look at any of the new M65 parkas getting around, if they are constructed anything like the original jackets, there is a lot of work involved in making one. Lots of fiddly pockets, velcro, zips, darting etc..

While there would be more material in a german WWII parka, that would only be due to the wool fill.

BTW, a friend of mine is ordering a M65 parka from one of the chinese manufacturers, so I will get a look at one sooner or later (and that manufacturer also makes WWII german parkas).

[jesse_]

Siling,
German reversible parkas are double garments. Pockets, wind flaps, buttons, buttonholes, all must be made twice. There are four times as many button holes on a parka compared to a non-wind flap garment. So the labor costs are going to be much higher. The list price for an S&M on his site as well as his eBay store is $350. This is the same LB was asking-and at least I got corded buttonholes. The new generation parkas from ATF are listed at $295. The thicker blanketing is a plus as the old blanketing gave negligible warmth. I always had to wear a sweater underneath.

My biggest issue would be the sagging. I was told by LB that the original insulation was woven in a way that wouldn’t sag. What they do is zigzag stitch over the blanketing and that works well. I can cut open my S&M tonight as now I’m interested. Anyone have any input on the originals in this regard?

One more; I was told (again, by LB) that the Germans used older more time consuming techniques when manufacturing their garments. American items of the second war were made essentially the way modern garments are. Comments on this appyling to winter parkas?

The question is how much a really nice parka is worth to you, and if a "first quality" just isnt worth the money, what standards are you willing to lower in order to meet your price target?

[Drew Maynard]

I knew a Danish woman who sewed the 'parkas; for the German Army.

Perhaps, in regards to the 'sagging fill' 'problem' you're thinking of the overstitch on teh Luftwaffe parkas, that look like a 'quilted' pattern.

Other- WH and SS parkas- don't have any over stitch as far as I know. Items aren't just tossed in the openings when assembled.

The Danish woman told me that everything and anything from the inside of a couch, to blankets and tablecloths to suit jackets, was used to fill the interior of the coats, when supplies were thin. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to use one personal 65+ year old story to blanketly (no pun intended) enforce methods of assembly in wartime Europe. As with any garment, the materials will vary and wane as the war progresses, but the quality of assembly is fairly stringent and constant across the war years. And not all 'parkas' were filled with blankets. As well, not all parkas are uber puffy pieces as well.

As far as manufacture of other parkas in comparison with repro parkas, again remember the scales of production. There's a much smaller market- a cottage industry if you will, for reversable German repro parkas compared to issued modern military type parkas. So the economy of scale makes them more expensive. Figure out how much you'd pay for a winter coat and winter pants and it's not super far off.

[jesse_]

Drew, thank you for your correction and insight. It's a shame that much of the first hand knowlege is in the process of being lost.

[LSSAH1944]

On the sale page of ATF, they have the Apaloosa parkas for only 139. I've got one in the mail to me now, I'll post pics of it when it arrives if you want.

[siling]

@ jesse_ - yeah, I know they are reversible. That one of the things I dont really like about them, I'm never going to reverse the parka (without a new ice age or some sort of crust shift, its not going to snow here anytime in the next billion years or so). White lining doesnt really do much for me, and its bound to get filthy, but not much I can do about that.....

Buttonholes are easy, you just run the buttonholer. Windflaps should be easy as well, its just a single strip.

Warmth isnt going to be a problem. Well, if anything the parkas could be too warm, I live in a fairly hot envoriment. Another reason why I'm not going to get a 2011 SWM parka.

I wouldnt be suprised if the internal suspension system is at least part of what LB meant by "older more time consuming techniques". It wouldnt apply to the parkas, AFAIK anyway. I'd need to look at the patterns and learn a bit more about sewing to know for sure.

I have no idea how good the SMW parkas are, or any of the other manufacturers. I wouldnt call 'sagging wool' to be a indicator of quality though, and if that is 'first quality' then something is wrong IMO.

@ Drew Maynard- yeah, I had actually seen you post that before. Interesting info.

I dont buy the 'ecconomy of scales' idea. I think that ATF probably payed in the order of $130 or less for the 2010 SMW parkas. Which isnt that different in price to the online chinese stuff, IMO a lot of why the SMW parkas are expensive is because people will pay the price.

I acutually used to work in a jersey factory. From what I was told and saw there, the difference between doing a run of 20-25 and runs of 1000+ wasnt that high- about 10-15% more for the smaller runs.

That isnt taking screenprinting or the fabric into account though. Fabic costs were fairly cosistant, screenprinting was really expensive. That was a (at the time) very new 'sublimiation' printing method, which required a whole boat-load of expensive equipment (150-200K for screenrprinting machine, 100k for a hot press) and isnt how they do german camo patterns. The german WWII repo camo would be roller printed or 'normal' screenprinted. BTW, I was a screenprinter there, not sewing.

'Winter pants', LOL. I've never bought 'winter pants' in my life.

@ LSSAH1944- I saw the 'Apaloosa' parkas. I didnt want to get one, who knows how any particular parka will look (as you have no idea where the parka will be oak 'a', or oak 'b'). Thanks for the offer.