What do you do in Reenactments?

[Eden Zhang]

Hi there.

Sorry if my question sounds quite n00bish and ignorant, but I've always wondered about one aspect of reenactment.

Do you look at historical battles and reenact those said battles, or do you make up fictional battles but use the same doctrines, equipment and tactics as the combatants at that time would've used?

Another thing, how do you account for "Deaths"? Are there referees standing around saying who is supposed to be dead, or is it just a matter of honesty? If one "Dies", is he out for the entire day or is it like in Japanese Samauri reenactments where you can get up after 15 seconds? (Zombie Waffen SS..woo!)

I know that perhaps some of these things will vary from one club and one region to another, but please do share with us your group's rules!

[Langemann]

Hello!

It has been my experience (40+ reenactments) that all around the US people reenact both hisorical battles and fictional battles. The big ones IE D-Day, Market Garden, Wacht Am Rhein, ect are constantly being reenacted. While other battles are being created and fought over at a specific time. IE Seelow Heights area at the beginning of April.

Regardless of what battle is being fought, all units are striving to use tactics and equipment that is period specific. Thats one of the major purposes of reenacting.

How people take "hits" is a varying matter from reenactment to reenactment. Sometimes referees do exist and they will call a person as being "dead" if they are not taking obvious hits. They do not, for the most part, walk around arbitrarily taking people out. At most battles, however, "hits" are taken using the honesty system. Which never seems to work out as well as it is supposed to.

Depending on the reenactment and the numbers per side the "death" time is variable. Sometimes its as little as 5 minutes. Other times it can be as long as 1/2 hour.

I hope this helps.

Langemann

[Eden Zhang]

Another question, if you don't mind...

Do you get to select a team to be on or do you get assigned, or is it prearranged?

So what I'm saying is, if teams are lopsided, what is done to alleviate this problem?

[Siegfried Wilhelm]

>>>Do you get to select a team to be on or do you get assigned, or is it prearranged? <<

You join a unit (or club) that, like most any club, is one that fits what you like to do the most. Some units are all about 'trigger time' and love those shoot-em-ups. Others are really collector/history geeks and have and use a lot of really neat (and sometimes rare) original or extremely accurate reproduction stuff--but tend to be more static because they are very conscious of the potential for ruining something. There are just 'party units' which are like they sound. Also vehicle and equipment groups who's whole membership revolves around some cool piece of armor or a machine gun or something. And there is the whole range of types in between.
What you do is find one that is right for you.

Now in the upper eschelon of the 'armies' each unit may be assigned or prefer to be bunched in with other like units to make up larger groups--and several of these make up the 'army'. Which unit you're with is entirely up to you.
Being an officer completely depends on how many other folks you can get to follow you--simple as that.

>>So what I'm saying is, if teams are lopsided, what is done to alleviate this problem? <<

It is the luck of who and how many show up to the reenactment. Many times the sides are indeed lopsided. Not much can be done about that except for the Germans to say (if they're badly outnumbered) "Hey, it's 1945."
But what often happens is that the 'short side' will get a terrain or time advantage or some other such advantage, but that is about all that can be done.

Hope this answers.

SW~

[Koehler]

At nearly all reenactor web sites I have visited, they go out of their way to disavowal any Nazi sympathies. They do not permit use of the Hitler salute or oath. This strikes me odd in the sense that otherwise, they go to great lengths to assure historical accuracy in clothing, tactics, etc.

Question: Did any actual German units not use the Hitler salute in ordinary operations? Was it optional? What was used in its stead?

Question: Did the Nazi party have field agents spreading their ideology among the troops?

My first post; hope it's within the rules.

Koehler

[Siegfried Wilhelm]

Oh yes, your post is within the rules just fine.
Your questions about the Deutscher Gruss; No as a rule we don't use that except maybe some SS units who are into it, because the SS did commonly use it.
That being said, I must add that after the 20 July 1944 thing, orders went out that ALL military HAD to use that salute. It was resisted a bit, especially by the old line professional officer class, but as a rule there was a lot more of it then...even though the regular military salute was still preferred.
So we as reenactors 'should' be doing that whenever we portray a period after the July plot, such as the Ardennes offensive which is one of the more popular annual reenactments. Consequently even some of us army types try to use it a little (but feel a little strange doing it) just for the sake of historical accuracy. But I have to admit that when I use it--and I do on those occasions--it is a very casual half measure thing and often it looks more like I am waving at someone...and that's fine with me. On that rare occasion when I should actually need to do a formal one (a rare occurrence) I can snap one out with the best of them.

Often I say "Bis hier stehen wir in die Scheisse" (loosely translated: 'Up to here, we are in the shit') while showing them how high, instead of the usual customary words.
This is an actual period thing.

As to your second question; Yes, each command was supposed to have a staff officer (VI) who was responsible for the 'Political Correctness' of the command. Again, this was more true after the July plot. General Speidel, GFM Rommel's Ia (chief of staff) in his memiors relates how Rommel never wanted one around his staff and went to great lengths to keep from getting one...his replacement, v. Kluge immediately did have one.
So those political PC police and the party stuff like the salute was not universally popular with the regular military.
It is not any more popular with most reenactors either...but we do try to do enough to be historically accurate in our portrayals...like the T-shirt says: "I'd rather be historically accurate than politically correct!".
I have to agree.

SW~

[Eden Zhang]

Often I say "Bis hier stehen wir in die Scheisse" (loosely translated: 'Up to here, we are in the shit') while showing them how high, instead of the usual customary words.
This is an actual period thing.

Or you can say what Col. Klink would say in the German version of Hogan's Heroes. That is: "The wheat grows this high!".[/quote]

[Langemann]

Another question, if you don't mind...

Do you get to select a team to be on or do you get assigned, or is it prearranged?

So what I'm saying is, if teams are lopsided, what is done to alleviate this problem?

If you have joined a reenactment "unit," that is the group that you will stay with. If you happen to go to an event where the numbers are lopsided, then like the real war, you're just going to have to use superior tactics to win.

Some events do try and even out the numbers, but those are few and far between. It's more authentic to not know what units and how many men you'll be fighting anyway.

Langemann

[Koehler]

Another question. Even if a reenactor group disavowels any neo-nazi interests, I am curious to know how the respective governments treat them? Are reenactors groups allowed in Germany, for example? Any reports of harassments or restrictions?

Koehler

[Jon Das Reich]

Koehler
At the moment there arnt any ww2 German reenactment groups in Germany but i have heard through the grape vine that there may be a Heer group forming, also there is a Heer group formed in holland for the first time.
In the uk the Home office does reconize ww2 reenactment as a growing hobby and know that the german groups arnt neo nazi group and are just reenactors enjoying the hobby they love.
Certain shows ie MVT militay vechile shows in the uk dont allow ss runes to be worn and you can get the odd comment made to you by the members of the public cos you are dressed as a german but most "vets" enjoy having a chat and telling you their stories about being blown from their tank by the lot you portray. In general we German reenactors in the uk enjoy roughly the same freedom doing our hobby as the allied reenactors but i would say some of that is due to the uk not being invaded during the war, so the British public only saw the germans froma distance.[/img]

[Leibstandarte_reenactor]

Another question. Even if a reenactor group disavowels any neo-nazi interests, I am curious to know how the respective governments treat them? Are reenactors groups allowed in Germany, for example? Any reports of harassments or restrictions?

Koehler

well in most american SS unit (i know in mine it is this way) there are NO politics involved at all or you are expelled from the group no questions asked.

[Koehler]

Leibstandarte_reenactor
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Status of reenactors

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Koehler wrote:
Another question. Even if a reenactor group disavowels any neo-nazi interests, I am curious to know how the respective governments treat them? Are reenactors groups allowed in Germany, for example? Any reports of harassments or restrictions?

Koehler


well in most american SS unit (i know in mine it is this way) there are NO politics involved at all or you are expelled from the group no questions asked.


I understand this; what I wanted to know was from the government's point of view. How do they treat these groups? The reenactor's could well be 100% anti-nazi, but their government might well assume otherwise. I was wondering if any reenactoring groups were harassed or prevented from forming. With the new US "Patriot" laws I am wondering if reenactors would be deemed potential terrorists? I am not trying to be
controversial but with the rapid increase of laws and regulations, I wonder how such groups with be treated.

Koehler

[Eden Zhang]

uk not being invaded during the war, so the British public only saw the germans froma distance

The Germans did occupy the Channel Islands, but from what I hear, their treatment of civilans there was good.[/quote]

[Leibstandarte_reenactor]

i dount the govt would label re-eanctors terroists, in fact lots unit have US govt funded grants and loans and stuff

[Steve Das Reich]

Hi All,

In my opinion, Axis re enactment groups within the UK receive no biased treatment, yes you might get the odd comment from a member of the public.

I feel the fairly liberal society that makes up the UK citizenship is in general level headed enough to know that re enactment is a hobby.

Some groups have members of the Police in there numbers, if it were at all suspect I dont think they would jepordise there employment.

I believe government organisations, may pass an eye over groups to just make sure.

The danger comes when some lunatics, use re enactment to hide their true agenda.

Just my opinion.

Regards

Steve