Berghof Obersalzberg

[CPB]

Tut tut

[Geoff Walden]

No, it wasn't me.

[RobertD1]

Me neither.

[Lytvyn]

Hello

[Mannheim]

I believe that people who have been in the Kegelbahn area got through from the other side. But as I understand it, the cellar roof was collapsed during the bombing, somewhere along the side wing, so probably not all that area has been accessible, and it was probably not accessible from the garage. I'm just speculating ... I have not been in there myself.

@Pavel - Looks convincing to me! Thanks to Mira!


I've been cleaning up (the joys of retirement) and found a few more photos I took on the Berghof in 1982 and 1989. One of them shows a collapsed roof - presumably the cellar's - although the only light I had down there (in 1982) was from my camera flash. The other two featuring my son were taken in 1989 and I only post them to show those of us who have been there how much the site of the Berghof has changed since it became officially accessible. Yes, I am ashamed of myself for allowing my five-year-old son to become an accomplice as we wriggled under the fence to get in.

[Mannheim]

...and while I'm on the subject, can anyone identify where this is in relation to the current Berghof site? Come to think of it, I can't work out where the photo with my son standing on the broken steps (above) was taken. Both were taken in 1989 and I've written on the back "Site of Hitler's Berghof". Big help. Geoff?

[Geoff Walden]

I wish I could help, Gary, but I don't recognize that wall or those steps. For sure, that block-over-brick wall/foundation is not there now (or it's well buried). I didn't see this in 1981, and I haven't seen anything like that there since visiting over the past 18 years. I do recall seeing pics of a wall that used to be in the area where the rock garden (Alpinum) was, maybe 20+ years ago, and not there now, but as I recall, this was a concrete or rough stone wall ... I can't find those photos now.

Is it possible that the last photo was taken in the area of the Kindergarten or Modellhaus ruins, back up behind the Tuerken?

[Mannheim]

I just spent the best part of an hour poring over photos of the Berghof site and I don't know either, Geoff. I seem to recall we didn't stray too far from the Berghof site but I can't recognise the sites of the 'steps' photo or the wall photo. As a matter of fact, at the time I thought that the steps might have been part of the grand staircase - now I'm not even sure the photo shows steps. The 'steps' where my son is standing look like they could well be just parts of a broken wall or other masonry. As for the wall, I wonder if it could be part of the retaining wall behind the adjutants' quarters. I know it is very unlikely but I wondered if the facing stonework may have been removed for other purposes before the area was reopened to visitors.
The other and more likely possibility is that the wall was part of the Kindergarten area as you said. Last year I found some very overgrown ruins that I hadn't noticed before between and behind the Turken and the Berghof(very unhelpful photo attached). It may well be that the mysterious wall is buried under all that subsequent growth.
Wish I'd taken more care with cataloguing my photos but in those days the Berghof Fan Club had only one member as far as I knew.

[Max]

More here
http://www.pic2fly.com/Berghof+Ruins.html

These look like your third pic above
Too bad that those time stamps are not for the date.

[Geoff Walden]

I just spent the best part of an hour poring over photos of the Berghof site and I don't know either, Geoff. I seem to recall we didn't stray too far from the Berghof site but I can't recognise the sites of the 'steps' photo or the wall photo. ... As for the wall, I wonder if it could be part of the retaining wall behind the adjutants' quarters. I know it is very unlikely but I wondered if the facing stonework may have been removed for other purposes before the area was reopened to visitors.

I was thinking the same. I never saw the retaining wall looking other than how it looks today, but I suppose that could have been the wall behind the Adjutancy, at one time. There ARE brick remains back there today.

Last year I found some very overgrown ruins that I hadn't noticed before between and behind the Turken and the Berghof(very unhelpful photo attached).

Not exactly sure where this was taken, but if you were walking up on the hill behind the Tuerken, toward the Berghof site, that looks like the area where the large water cistern overlooking the SS Kaserne is located (seen from a distance).

[Mannheim]

Max's last photo lends credence to Adjutancy-wall-stripped-of-facing-stonework theory but I'm concerned that in my photo the material behind the wall appears to consist of bricks of which there is little/no evidence behind the Adjutancy wall today.
As for the unhelpful photo of overgrown ruins, I seem to recall that last year I decided to walk from the Documentation Centre to the Berghof site, not along the direct pathway as a sensible person would, but through the woods on top of the hill. This allowed me to look down on the direct path but I failed to find any new treasures and also managed to fall over three times.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I'm smart.
I think the overgrown ruins are on top of the hill behind the Berghof site on the way to the Turken. I'll be back there in 2017 so I'll have another look. BTW, I filmed the path and the water cistern and noticed a cement lump with a handle on it (down the hill, just above the Berghof site) which I filmed but forgot to photograph. I think it may well be part of a Moll bunker as described by Geoff. Here's another unhelpful photograph.

[Geoff Walden]

Gary, if you were higher up the hill, above the path that goes right past that water reservoir in your last photo, there are two other water reservoirs up there (and some other smaller nondescript ruins). They are just flat concrete pads (but one with two concrete caps on top), not like this reservoir that sticks out. One is more-or-less up above your picture point, but (as I recall) a little to the right (if you stood at the reservoir and looked up the hill). The other, larger, one is on down the path to the left, after the path curves away toward the right, pretty much back up behind the Türken. This is what I thought might be in your earlier photo. Indeed, that concrete piece you found with the handle is the door of a Moll Bunker. It was still there last year.

Another possibility for the stone wall (but I think a slim possibility) - there is (or was) a somewhat similar wall down in the valley below the Berghof, as part of a water runoff channel in the area where the original pathway was for Hitler and guests to walk toward the Mooslahnerkopf Teehaus. This is across the road from the Berghof driveway and down the hill. I haven't been there in years myself, and I don't have any photos of this wall. But as I recall, it was obviously part of a water channel, not really a standing wall like in your photo.
Geoff

[headwest]

Going off topic for just a minute here, I have to say, they really knew how to build a retaining wall! thats a whole lotta mountain behind it with water run off and everything, and it hast budged that i can see!

[Geoff Walden]

This is the wall I was thinking about, across the road from, and below, the Berghof site. I had forgotten that muller1945 posted these photos (this thread is WAY long!). But I don't think this was your wall after all, Gary.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1593912

[Mannheim]

I don't believe it is 'my' wall either, Geoff, given that the first time I crossed the road and wandered off into the woods was last year when I used your (excellent) book to find the Mooslahnerkopf. The earlier photos were all taken on the Berghof side of the road. I was just wondering if it could have been a retaining wall for some part of Goering's house as I know I took some photos there when you could still see the bunker entrance under the house site. But I doubt it.