Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds

[Paulheald]

My own interest in the Nuremberg Rally Grounds came about as a young child when our school doctor told us of his experiences when attending Reichs Partei Tag before the war in Nuremberg. His description really burned a fascination in my mind to visit this site. I have to say that when I got around to visiting the Rally Grounds I was rather disappointed because it did not match up to the vivid description of our school doctor. It all looked rather forlorn and drab. This set me wondering if there is still anybody alive, that monitors this thread, that as a youngster attended these rallies - possibly as a member of the Deutches Jungvolk. If so I guess that I would really appreciate that person's distant memories before the final curtain falls on that era.

[Jeroen7]

Does someone know where this image, taken in Nürnberg, is taken excatly (hopefully a street name)?

[Jeroen7]

Does someone know where this image, taken in Nürnberg, is taken excatly (hopefully a street name)?

Found it myself. Actually, it's not in Nürnberg, but in München.
Carlton teamraum (on the left) is/was on the Brienerstraße (some buildings are changed now). Notice the gate in the background.

https://www.google.nl/maps/@48.143082,1 ... lWZhlA!2e0

[Cor]

I was convinced it was not in Nurnberg, but i was a bit doubting, i was for sure it was not in the altstadt, but maybe in the ring around the altstadt, because you said nurnberg and thought because it was a picture of life, that they knew it better than me. Glad i knew better

[Geoff Walden]

I was at the Zeppelinfeld today, and there have been some changes within the past month. There are a couple new signs about the planned repair work (hope you can read them at the scale they must be posted here). Also, the last time I was here, this staircase was torn apart. It has now been repaired, complete with sealant along the wall edge - apparently part of the repair study process. I did not see anything going on at Tower 8, so I guess they haven't started that yet, or maybe the work is inside.

Geoff

[Paulheald]

Hello Geoff, I always enjoy reading your up-dated bulletins on what is happening in respect of the restoration of the Zeppelin Stadium. As you appear to be a frequent visitor to the Rally Grounds and are probably one of the world's leading experts on this part of history, I have a new one that I don't think has been raised before on this thread.

Apparently there were plans to build the largest stadium in the world at the Rally Grounds but this was never completed. However, a secret test section was built some 40-km distant from Nuremberg. I attach some pictures, per courtesy of Spiegel on line and would welcome your expert knowledge to know if there are any present-day remnants of this structure?

[headwest]

Hi All

I am curious about where Hitler stood. I read that you can no longer stand where he actually stood since another layer or the floor has been changed and raised in the speaker podium

If so, do we know when this was done, and why? and by whom?

thanks much

[Geoff Walden]

Hello Geoff, I always enjoy reading your up-dated bulletins on what is happening in respect of the restoration of the Zeppelin Stadium. As you appear to be a frequent visitor to the Rally Grounds and are probably one of the world's leading experts on this part of history, I have a new one that I don't think has been raised before on this thread.
Apparently there were plans to build the largest stadium in the world at the Rally Grounds but this was never completed. However, a secret test section was built some 40-km distant from Nuremberg. I attach some pictures, per courtesy of Spiegel on line and would welcome your expert knowledge to know if there are any present-day remnants of this structure?

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your kind comments! To answer your question - yes, actually, quite a bit of ruins remain at that site. See -
http://www.thirdreichruins.com/misc_sit ... adionmodel (only a few photos here - just a small part of the site).

Hi All
I am curious about where Hitler stood. I read that you can no longer stand where he actually stood since another layer or the floor has been changed and raised in the speaker podium
If so, do we know when this was done, and why? and by whom?
thanks much

Hi headwest,

This significant change was done sometime in the 1980s, presumably by the city of Nürnberg, but I don't know why. I've never read anything about this; I only noticed it by comparing earlier photos to how it looks today.

Geoff

[Paulheald]

Geoff wrote:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your kind comments! To answer your question - yes, actually, quite a bit of ruins remain at that site. See -
http://www.thirdreichruins.com/misc_sit ... adionmodel (only a few photos here - just a small part of the site).

Thanks Geoff - I have to say these guys certainly didn't do things by halves! The pics shown on "Third Reich in Ruins" are most interesting, but you comment that they show only a small part of the site. Is there a lot more to see and does this site receive many visitors these days?

[J. Duncan]

Hello everyone.
Paulhead posted a really nice color map of the area which I have studied and now have a better understanding of the outlay of this area. (Thanks Paulhead for posting this....it is very detailed)
I'm sure this has been gone over before but since the thread is so huge now I would like some clarification on my understanding of the map's reading in conjunction with the film Triumph of the Will.

Ok, #2 on his map is the Luitpold area which is filmed in "Triumph of the Will" where Hitler and Himmler meet the SA and SS and stroll to the small war memorial at the other end. This area is today a public park with grass and trees, only the memorial remains.

# 1 is the smaller congress hall where Hitler and Hess give their speeches in the 1934 film.

#12 - Is this where they had the military exercises / war games?

#8-9 This is the Zepplin field which we have discussed in detail, the area with the mystery tank right? This area was in Triumph but at the time had Speer's "butterfly-tacked" eagle?

Which area had the big HJ rallies from 1938 where Hitler drove his car around? ( *Was this the Altes stadium?) From the film clips (like "March to the Fuhrer") there is a canopy where the leaders speak but the area is large enough for Hitler's car to drive around the circle.

#12 is the big congress hall which was incomplete but the ruins are still there correct?

#11 is the area which Paulhead is questioning and where Speer can be seen in bottom photo?

#5,6,7, and 11 were not built or complete?

In 1934, when Triumph was made, they only had the Luitpold area, Zepplin area, Altes stadium, and the large feld for the military shows?

Please look over my post and tell me if I'm mistaken about anything and the question on the Hitler Youth rally area. I'm not sure about that one. My guess is the Altes stadium but I'm not sure. Where did the participants camp at (camping area)?

Is there a larger map somewhere showing where this Rally area is located in relation to the old city of Nuremberg?

Many thanks to all for a great thread.

Duncan

[Geoff Walden]

> #12 - Is this where they had the military exercises / war games?

This was the plan but this field was never completed. Only about half of the towers were built, and the whole thing was demolished after the war. Only some small traces of the foundation of one of the towers remain today. The field that was used for the military displays was the Zeppelinfeld, #8.

> #8-9 This is the Zepplin field which we have discussed in detail, the area with the mystery tank right? This area was in Triumph but at the time had Speer's "butterfly-tacked" eagle?

That's right.

> Which area had the big HJ rallies from 1938 where Hitler drove his car around? ( *Was this the Altes stadium?) From the film clips (like "March to the Fuhrer") there is a canopy where the leaders speak but the area is large enough for Hitler's car to drive around the circle.

Yes, that was the so-called Städtisches Stadion - the municipal stadium that pre-dated the Nazi construction at the Party Rally Grounds. #10

> #12 is the big congress hall which was incomplete but the ruins are still there correct?

That's #5.

> #11 is the area which Paulhead is questioning and where Speer can be seen in bottom photo?

The site that Paul showed was a test area for the seating arrangement for the #11 Stadion, which test site is in the hills east of Nürnberg. The Stadion itself had only a foundation stone laid and horseshoe-shaped excavations done for the foundations. Today this area is partly a lake and partly a hill of rubble dumped from clearing the bombing ruins.

> #5,6,7, and 11 were not built or complete?

#5 is the Kongresshalle that was largely built, but never completed. #6 and #7 were never started. #11 is the Stadion that had the foundation area dug.

> In 1934, when Triumph was made, they only had the Luitpold area, Zepplin area, Altes stadium, and the large feld for the military shows?

Yes, except the field for the military shows was the Zeppelinfeld ... they had only these first three areas.

> Please look over my post and tell me if I'm mistaken about anything and the question on the Hitler Youth rally area. I'm not sure about that one. My guess is the Altes stadium but I'm not sure. Where did the participants camp at (camping area)?

The camping areas were what is labeled Lager on this plan, out beyond #12. There were other nearby camps as well.

> Is there a larger map somewhere showing where this Rally area is located in relation to the old city of Nuremberg?

I have circled the Party Rally Grounds, as they existed then, on this 1934 map of Nürnberg, which has the old city in the center.

Geoff

[J. Duncan]

Geoff
Thankyou so much!! Thanks to Paulhead's map and your point for point answers I now totally understand the area lay-out and it's relations to the discussion. Much appreciated. I see I erred on the congress hall - I put 12 but meant #5 but you understood. The Rally grounds appear quite close to the old town so they didn't have to march too far from the area. Looks like a direct route from Luitpold area into the old city. Now I can go back into the old Hamilton T. Burden book ("Nuremberg Party Rallies")
and know all the areas he's talking about (he has maps too, but not as good and in color as Paulhead's..P's looks like a brochure - like the kind they have at amusement parks today)..now "Triumph of the Will" will make more sense in relation to the map.
Thanks again, and thankyou Paulhead for posting your interesting map.
Duncan

[Geoff Walden]

Hi Duncan,

My map makes it look closer than it really was/is to downtown ... probably because that map exaggerates the scale of the Luitpold Arena (possibly because that was the focal point of the Party Rally in 1934). It's over 6km from the camps area to the Hauptplatz in the old town (one way).

Geoff wrote:
Thanks Geoff - I have to say these guys certainly didn't do things by halves! The pics shown on "Third Reich in Ruins" are most interesting, but you comment that they show only a small part of the site. Is there a lot more to see and does this site receive many visitors these days?

Hi Paul,

There is a large hillside with a lot of the square concrete bases for the seating area, and large pieces of concrete ruins up at the top where they modeled the upper areas of the Stadion. It's really more of the same, just spread across a large area.

Up until a few years ago this site was largely unknown - it's way out in the boonies - you have to want to go there on purpose. But about 10 years ago they put up an information board, and I'm sure there are more visitors now. Although come to think of it, the four or five times I have been there, no-one else was there except my group.

BTW, the bottom picture was manipulated by Der Spiegel - those seating areas were there, but the upper parts of the Stadion (closest to the viewer) were added to the picture to show the scale. Nothing that large was ever built on the site.

Geoff

[Paulheald]

Thank you Geoff for the latest info about the Deutche Stadion test site. As per usual your in-depth knowledge of that period is veritable gold mine for us amateur historians.

Thank you J. Duncan for your kind comments about the map. I am so pleased that it helped you to sort out your orientation of the Rally Grounds' layout. I wanted to attach a copy of a prewar poster, in exactly the same color format as that of the map, of a beaming positively avuncular looking picture of AH (something that I am quite sure he was not!) advertising Reichparteitag Nuremberg. Sadly it has disappeared from my file.

[Max]

I wanted to attach a copy of a prewar poster, in exactly the same color format as that of the map, of a beaming positively avuncular looking picture of AH (something that I am quite sure he was not!) advertising Reichparteitag Nuremberg. Sadly it has disappeared from my file.

Uncle Wolfie


A great collection
http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/german_ ... sparteitag Nurnberg Postcards