Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Paul
I asked the same question and Geoff said that the Lager area was the place where the Hitler Youth and SA pitched camp...in "Triumph", the scenes showing the rows of tents, H J's playing games, and the SA men pitching firewood for their camp stoves is from this area. Below is Geoff's detailed answers to the specific numbered areas to your map:
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Post Number:#356 Postby Geoff Walden on 07 Sep 2014 07:31
> #12 - Is this where they had the military exercises / war games?
This was the plan but this field was never completed. Only about half of the towers were built, and the whole thing was demolished after the war. Only some small traces of the foundation of one of the towers remain today. The field that was used for the military displays was the Zeppelinfeld, #8.
> #8-9 This is the Zepplin field which we have discussed in detail, the area with the mystery tank right? This area was in Triumph but at the time had Speer's "butterfly-tacked" eagle?
That's right.
> Which area had the big HJ rallies from 1938 where Hitler drove his car around? ( *Was this the Altes stadium?) From the film clips (like "March to the Fuhrer") there is a canopy where the leaders speak but the area is large enough for Hitler's car to drive around the circle.
Yes, that was the so-called Städtisches Stadion - the municipal stadium that pre-dated the Nazi construction at the Party Rally Grounds. #10
> #12 is the big congress hall which was incomplete but the ruins are still there correct?
That's #5.
> #11 is the area which Paulhead is questioning and where Speer can be seen in bottom photo?
The site that Paul showed was a test area for the seating arrangement for the #11 Stadion, which test site is in the hills east of Nürnberg. The Stadion itself had only a foundation stone laid and horseshoe-shaped excavations done for the foundations. Today this area is partly a lake and partly a hill of rubble dumped from clearing the bombing ruins.
> #5,6,7, and 11 were not built or complete?
#5 is the Kongresshalle that was largely built, but never completed. #6 and #7 were never started. #11 is the Stadion that had the foundation area dug.
> In 1934, when Triumph was made, they only had the Luitpold area, Zepplin area, Altes stadium, and the large feld for the military shows?
Yes, except the field for the military shows was the Zeppelinfeld ... they had only these first three areas.
> Please look over my post and tell me if I'm mistaken about anything and the question on the Hitler Youth rally area. I'm not sure about that one. My guess is the Altes stadium but I'm not sure. Where did the participants camp at (camping area)?
The camping areas were what is labeled Lager on this plan, out beyond #12. There were other nearby camps as well.
> Is there a larger map somewhere showing where this Rally area is located in relation to the old city of Nuremberg?
I have circled the Party Rally Grounds, as they existed then, on this 1934 map of Nürnberg, which has the old city in the center.
Geoff
I asked the same question and Geoff said that the Lager area was the place where the Hitler Youth and SA pitched camp...in "Triumph", the scenes showing the rows of tents, H J's playing games, and the SA men pitching firewood for their camp stoves is from this area. Below is Geoff's detailed answers to the specific numbered areas to your map:
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Post Number:#356 Postby Geoff Walden on 07 Sep 2014 07:31
> #12 - Is this where they had the military exercises / war games?
This was the plan but this field was never completed. Only about half of the towers were built, and the whole thing was demolished after the war. Only some small traces of the foundation of one of the towers remain today. The field that was used for the military displays was the Zeppelinfeld, #8.
> #8-9 This is the Zepplin field which we have discussed in detail, the area with the mystery tank right? This area was in Triumph but at the time had Speer's "butterfly-tacked" eagle?
That's right.
> Which area had the big HJ rallies from 1938 where Hitler drove his car around? ( *Was this the Altes stadium?) From the film clips (like "March to the Fuhrer") there is a canopy where the leaders speak but the area is large enough for Hitler's car to drive around the circle.
Yes, that was the so-called Städtisches Stadion - the municipal stadium that pre-dated the Nazi construction at the Party Rally Grounds. #10
> #12 is the big congress hall which was incomplete but the ruins are still there correct?
That's #5.
> #11 is the area which Paulhead is questioning and where Speer can be seen in bottom photo?
The site that Paul showed was a test area for the seating arrangement for the #11 Stadion, which test site is in the hills east of Nürnberg. The Stadion itself had only a foundation stone laid and horseshoe-shaped excavations done for the foundations. Today this area is partly a lake and partly a hill of rubble dumped from clearing the bombing ruins.
> #5,6,7, and 11 were not built or complete?
#5 is the Kongresshalle that was largely built, but never completed. #6 and #7 were never started. #11 is the Stadion that had the foundation area dug.
> In 1934, when Triumph was made, they only had the Luitpold area, Zepplin area, Altes stadium, and the large feld for the military shows?
Yes, except the field for the military shows was the Zeppelinfeld ... they had only these first three areas.
> Please look over my post and tell me if I'm mistaken about anything and the question on the Hitler Youth rally area. I'm not sure about that one. My guess is the Altes stadium but I'm not sure. Where did the participants camp at (camping area)?
The camping areas were what is labeled Lager on this plan, out beyond #12. There were other nearby camps as well.
> Is there a larger map somewhere showing where this Rally area is located in relation to the old city of Nuremberg?
I have circled the Party Rally Grounds, as they existed then, on this 1934 map of Nürnberg, which has the old city in the center.
Geoff
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Thanks J Duncan - for some unknown reason I missed that one. Cheers Paul
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Whilst continuing to chase the story behind the elusive mystery tank that got whacked in the Zeppelin arena, I found a very interesting film all about the Rally Grounds. Therein it mentioned that, prior to the building of the Congress Hall, Germany's largest inland lighthouse had to be dismantled. The film runs for about 30-minutes and has some very nice music as a background. The resolution is up to maggots but I found it very interesting. URL is http://www.hit-muzik.com/dinle.php?id=4oIf341owrA
- Geoff Walden
- Member
- Posts: 2616
- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:50
- Location: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
- Contact:
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
The initial study on what to do to stabilize and preserve the Zeppelintibuene has been completed. The study indicated that the root cause of the worst damage is the water saturation of the limestone. Any stabilization program will have to include drying out the structure, which may take as long as 50 years. There is initial planning to pump dry air from the inside out in an attempt to accomplish this.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/ns-ba ... -1.2224290
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/ns-ba ... -1.2224290
- N.C. Wyeth
- Member
- Posts: 124
- Joined: 08 Dec 2008, 00:00
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
So the next time we get together, Geoff . . . we'll still be standing there, watching the rubble fall to pieces under our feet?Geoff Walden wrote:The initial study on what to do to stabilize and preserve the Zeppelintibuene has been completed. The study indicated that the root cause of the worst damage is the water saturation of the limestone. Any stabilization program will have to include drying out the structure, which may take as long as 50 years. There is initial planning to pump dry air from the inside out in an attempt to accomplish this.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/ns-ba ... -1.2224290
That was a great experience - standing there, in that spot [along with you and my better-half] . . . to think that it will continue to crumble - and likely - eventually disappear. Wow - what a thought. Happy to say, I finally made it there . . . and one day, if it is finally gone, I can still look back on that time, and say - "I was there" . . . [with Geoff as well! ]
History is the witness that testifies to the passing of time; it illuminates reality, vitalizes memory, provides guidance in daily life, and brings us tidings of antiquity. - Cicero
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Regarding the decay of the Zeppelin Tribune and subsequent restoration; is the The Great Road also falling to bits? I have never had time to visit the Great Road, so I would like to know what was its original purpose? It doesn't seem to go anywhere other than linking up the various facilities actual and potential, so was there a plan to link it up with the city to make it into a Roman style Triumphant Way from city to the Party Rally Grounds?
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
The Great Road was still looking pretty good in 2012.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.
- Geoff Walden
- Member
- Posts: 2616
- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:50
- Location: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
- Contact:
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
The Great Road is paved with granite slabs - long lasting (it is said that each slab statistically equals the death of one prisoner at the Flossenbuerg concentration camp, where the granite quarry was located). The Kongresshalle also has granite blocks on the outer surface, so it shows few weathering effects today. The Zeppelintribuene, on the other hand, was made from an apparently low-grade limestone, unable to withstand the effects of wet weather and neglect.
- ghostsoldier
- Member
- Posts: 1461
- Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 22:52
- Location: Florida, USA
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
I wonder why the regime 'cheaped out' on material for the Zeppelintribuene, or was that Speer's Theory of Ruin Value being implemented?
Rob
Rob
"Even God cannot change the past. "
-Agathon (448 BC - 400 BC)
-Agathon (448 BC - 400 BC)
- Geoff Walden
- Member
- Posts: 2616
- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:50
- Location: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
- Contact:
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Hi Rob,
That's a very good question, one that I have not been able to find a satisfactory answer for. I should have described the limestone of the ZeppTrib as "porous." In contrast, the limestone of the Umspannwerk (transformer station) next door appears in much better condition. Indeed, it appears to have been of a higher grade from the get-go, even though this building was built concurrently with the ZeppTrib (it was started a couple years later, though - maybe that's the difference - different stone available then?). This is the building that was spruced up for today's Burger King and fitness studio, but even before that transformation, the limestone blocks appeared to be in much better shape than those of the ZeppTrib nearby. Different quarry source, maybe?
BTW, the left hand side of the Zeppelin Tribuene, that had the scaffolding erected on the back and side last year, now has an elevated plywood cover over it, apparently to keep off rain and snow, part of the ongoing preservation study. The Deutscher Hof hotel in town is now completely covered by scaffolding and plasic sheeting, during the conversion of the interior into luxury apartments. What changes, if any, this will mean to the historic front facade, I don't know (except they already removed the original iron light fixtures).
Geoff
That's a very good question, one that I have not been able to find a satisfactory answer for. I should have described the limestone of the ZeppTrib as "porous." In contrast, the limestone of the Umspannwerk (transformer station) next door appears in much better condition. Indeed, it appears to have been of a higher grade from the get-go, even though this building was built concurrently with the ZeppTrib (it was started a couple years later, though - maybe that's the difference - different stone available then?). This is the building that was spruced up for today's Burger King and fitness studio, but even before that transformation, the limestone blocks appeared to be in much better shape than those of the ZeppTrib nearby. Different quarry source, maybe?
BTW, the left hand side of the Zeppelin Tribuene, that had the scaffolding erected on the back and side last year, now has an elevated plywood cover over it, apparently to keep off rain and snow, part of the ongoing preservation study. The Deutscher Hof hotel in town is now completely covered by scaffolding and plasic sheeting, during the conversion of the interior into luxury apartments. What changes, if any, this will mean to the historic front facade, I don't know (except they already removed the original iron light fixtures).
Geoff
- ghostsoldier
- Member
- Posts: 1461
- Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 22:52
- Location: Florida, USA
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Thanks, Geoff....in the back of my mind, I was thinking exactly what you postulated: Different geological stone source, at a different time.
Unless, of course, the plan all along was to have a Thousand Year Burger King.
Rob
Unless, of course, the plan all along was to have a Thousand Year Burger King.
Rob
"Even God cannot change the past. "
-Agathon (448 BC - 400 BC)
-Agathon (448 BC - 400 BC)
- Geoff Walden
- Member
- Posts: 2616
- Joined: 29 Mar 2002, 15:50
- Location: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
- Contact:
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
In the middle of the night last night, three young men were arrested for reckless driving without a license and under the influence of drugs (one of them), on the Grosse Strasse.
http://www.nordbayern.de/region/nuernbe ... -1.4080727
http://www.nordbayern.de/region/nuernbe ... -1.4080727
Nurnberg Now & Then - Episodes 1 & 2
This summer I visited Nürnberg for the first time. As my interest in Now & Then growths more and more, the upcoming months I will make some 12-14 video productions about different places of Nürnberg during the Third Reich. As a bonus we released two episodes today. Enjoy!
If you like this new series, you maybe like the series of 12 episodes about the Obersalzberg too.
Feel free to subscribe to my YouTube channel so you don't miss an episode of any future World War II production.
Here we go....
Episode 1: Reichsparteitag
YouTube: http://youtu.be/DqL3fZ10jNk
Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/114975363
Episode 2: Ehrenhalle
Youtube: http://youtu.be/mNbNarAnm9g
Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/114976034
If you like this new series, you maybe like the series of 12 episodes about the Obersalzberg too.
Feel free to subscribe to my YouTube channel so you don't miss an episode of any future World War II production.
Here we go....
Episode 1: Reichsparteitag
YouTube: http://youtu.be/DqL3fZ10jNk
Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/114975363
Episode 2: Ehrenhalle
Youtube: http://youtu.be/mNbNarAnm9g
Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/114976034
- ghostsoldier
- Member
- Posts: 1461
- Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 22:52
- Location: Florida, USA
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Awesome videos, Jeroen! Thanks for sharing!
Rob
Rob
"Even God cannot change the past. "
-Agathon (448 BC - 400 BC)
-Agathon (448 BC - 400 BC)
Re: Nuremberg Party Rally Grounds
Indeed stunning videos Jeroen. Especially the second video at 3.15 till 3.35 is great.