Bridge in Berlin

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
Mannheim
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Bridge in Berlin

#1

Post by Mannheim » 26 Dec 2013, 00:46

Does anyone know the name of this bridge in Berlin (i.e. the one on which the two women are walking)? There is another well-known photo of a Russian soldier standing next to a corpse on this same bridge. This photo comes from Harry von Gebhardt's site.
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htz.PNG
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

GregSingh
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#2

Post by GregSingh » 26 Dec 2013, 02:50

It's Moltke Bridge (Moltkebrücke).


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Cor
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#3

Post by Cor » 26 Dec 2013, 16:45

GregSingh wrote:It's Moltke Bridge (Moltkebrücke).
i don't think this is right, so convince me. I dont know which bridge it must be but i doubt your answer.

Mannheim
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#4

Post by Mannheim » 26 Dec 2013, 22:40

I'm with Cor. I don't think it's the Moltke bridge either but will check my photo file today.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

Mannheim
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#5

Post by Mannheim » 26 Dec 2013, 23:49

This bloke thinks it's the Moltke Bridge but I'm still not convinced. The tracery is different in both photos and according to Tony Le Tissier's "Berlin: Battlefield Guide" the span on which the Russian soldier is standing is the one that collapsed when the Germans tried to blow the bridge. I'll keep investigating.
http://kenklatt.com/the-battle-of-berli ... n-and-now/
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

GregSingh
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#6

Post by GregSingh » 27 Dec 2013, 02:22

The span did not collapse. It was only damaged. Here is the picture taken exactly in opposite direction.
Both show southern part of the bridge. Source of the picture - http://studgenpol.blogspot.com.au/2012_ ... chive.html
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1945 Moltkebrücke.jpg

GregSingh
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#7

Post by GregSingh » 27 Dec 2013, 03:43

When you look along the Spree, you will see what's left of Admiral-Scheer-Brücke and behind is the AEG building on Friedrich-Karl-Ufer. Another suggestions are welcome at any time. :)
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AEG ca.1910.jpg
AEG building
AEG ca.1910.jpg (62.31 KiB) Viewed 1194 times

Mannheim
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#8

Post by Mannheim » 27 Dec 2013, 06:50

Excellent site you referenced, Greg! Some great photos. I'm still trying to retrieve my own photos of the Moltke Bridge.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#9

Post by GregSingh » 27 Dec 2013, 09:13

I am having second thoughts... :D
Dome on the AEG building seems to big. Also the second bridge looks quite OK, but Admiral-Scheer-Brücke shouldn't be there at all.

It might be Gertrauden-Brücke. View towards Schloss.
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Gertraudenbruecke_um_1900.jpg
Gertrauden-Brücke

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Cor
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#10

Post by Cor » 27 Dec 2013, 12:45

GregSingh wrote:
It might be Gertrauden-Brücke. View towards Schloss.
That was my thought too GregSingh but i'm also not convinced, because the bridge we are looking at in the first picture of Mannheim doesn;t look like the Jungfernbruecke.

I'm pretty sure it is not the Moltke bridgge, because the bridge in the picture has no lower shore, that the moltke bridge have in both the older pictures i have seen and how it is today.

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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#11

Post by GregSingh » 27 Dec 2013, 14:07

It seems that Jungfernbrücke was rebuilt just before the WWII.
[..]The hinged side parts have been replaced by a solid bridge surface of steel beams with timber decking. The western arch was completely demolished and rebuilt in reinforced concrete. The cable channels on both sides of the bridge were also removed[..]

Mannheim
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#12

Post by Mannheim » 28 Dec 2013, 01:54

You can tell I'm on holidays - I've spent the morning trying to solve where this picture was taken. I have a theory - feel free to disagree.
I think Greg was right in the first place: it is the Moltke Bridge. My problems were: the pedestal/column where the Soviet soldier is standing (and to which the women are walking) is lacking the tracery seen in the modern photo -and the balustrade in the period photo (where the remnants of those little columns shaped like billiard table legs can be seen) is supported by a double layer of blocks and only a single layer in the modern photo. However, it occurs to me that the modern road may well be higher than the original which would obliterate the lower layer of stone blocks holding the balustrade. As for the tracery, a close examination of my modern (i.e. 2010) photos shows that each of the four griffins at the ends of the bridge has no tracery - only the six in the middle have the same tracery as seen in the modern photo. There are still some niggling doubts but I would be keen to hear what others think.
In my posted photo from 2010, the tracery is marked by a red line in the near pedestal and the lack of tracery is marked by a blue line in the far pedestal. The green line shows the billiard table-shaped columns.
The other posted photo is one I took in c. 1978 showing the damaged bridge from the non- DDR side. Le Tissier says that one of the spans collapsed but only partly, allowing Russian tanks to cross. You can see the billiard table legs on the extreme left. The rest of the damage was, at the time, obviously bricked up.
Hope this makes sense.
Attachments
MB 1.jpg
MB 3.png
The red arrow is from a Powerpoint I did years ago.
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Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

GregSingh
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#13

Post by GregSingh » 28 Dec 2013, 09:48

It can't be Moltke bridge. :cry:
Shore promenades are not there as Cor pointed out. Even if they were covered in water in high tide :) , I still can't explain the bridge we see further on that photo. There wasn't any there in 1945-46.

I now think it is Inselbrücke. A view probably towards Roßstraßenbrücke.
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Inselbrücke.jpg
Inselbrücke ?

Mannheim
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#14

Post by Mannheim » 28 Dec 2013, 10:34

I think you're right. The shore promenades don't convince me as they could have been created post-war, given that so many buildings were destroyed. The photo however is very convincing. Thanks very much! I'll check it out and get a then-and-now photo when I am next in Berlin, possibly this year. Thanks again, I'm convinced. Great sleuthing!
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

GregSingh
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Re: Bridge in Berlin

#15

Post by GregSingh » 28 Dec 2013, 11:21

100% sure now.
Original photo shows destroyed buildings on Friedrichsgracht.
I found a photo from 1910, taken towards the bridge.
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Friedrichsgracht.jpg
Friedrichsgracht 1910-1945

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