Decision on Hitler's Braunau Birthplace

[JLEES]

Yes, I've been in the one under the Zeppelin Stadium twice, but on several occasions in Nuremberg it has been closed. I've never been to the museums in Cologne and Bendlerblock. I'll have to keep them in mind. Thanks!

[Geoff Walden]

OK, thanks. I know the one in the Congress Hall but I understand the one under the tribune at the Zeppelinfeld is rarely open. Pity.

True, Gary. There is no museum there now, only the empty rooms (except one of the large fire urns is in the "Golden Hall"). The museum all moved to the Dokumentation Center years ago (2001, I think). There are special tours of the "Golden Hall" and a few other rooms a couple times a year, but I don't know if there is a regular schedule (there was not, when I was living in the area from 2011-2016).

Yes, I also thought Braunau was a wonderful little Austrian town, but, in terms of tourism, there is much bigger draws in the area that would suck the oxygen way from it. The "Hitler tourism" or histroic tuorism would only enhanse what the town already has to offer. Just to go there 15-years ago was a major effert on my part, because my wife instead wanted to go to other places nearby Salzburg, Berchtesgaden, Linz. Seeing Hitler's birthplace was the only arguement I had to convince her it was a good idea. Few people would travel to see Mt Vernon in the US if George Washington's home wasn't there.

I have often thought just the same thing, James. Or - none of us would have EVER visited the Obersalzberg, if AH had lived elsewhere.
But, like you, my wife and I and friends also ate at a local restaurant (a nice pizza place just down the street on the other side from the birth house), and we bought some souvenirs in local stores. So we spent some money in Braunau besides just visiting the site (I expect most such visitors at least eat a meal in the town).

Geoff

[JLEES]

They must have shut down the Zeppelin Rally museum after the Congress Hall anti-Nazi museum was established. It's been years since I've been there. Nevertheless, my point was about using these historical sites to draw in tourists and also using them for anti-Nazi pedagogy. Like the Nazi Congress Hall if it had been nocked down there would be no museum there and no tourist dollars. I've been to that museum twice now and both times it was packed.

I also purchases a commemorative Braunau plate that is still in my living room. If Hitler's birthplace was somewhere else, I would have never visited the town. It's too out-of-the-way. There's other nearby places that would have got my tourist dollars. Braunau is a nice town, but not a big enough draw to get me there otherwise. Like most tourists that go there to check that place out they must look it over, not say anything to anyone and just leave. Nocking Hitler's birthplace down will be a mistake they'll regret down-the-road. Once the demolition is done there will be no way to undue the damage.

[N.C. Wyeth]

When I was in the neighborhood - some years ago . . . I was unfortunate enough to have not made the journey to see the place. Instead, the group I was with chose another nearby location to spend the time - all for a "photo-op", similar to this. If the Braunau site is torn down, my bet is that this will be the only place nearby that tourists will still flock to - and what sad statement that would make.

[JLEES]

Over the years, I've seen other communities shoot themselves in the foot like this and some don't seem to learn. It's just too bad that idiots inheret historical sites and squander them for future generations. This also overlooks the economic damage they're doing to municipalities that will be effected by their poor decisions. One would think the intelligent people would step forward and speak up. Too bad for Braunau.

[ManfredV]

Many austrians and of course many of their politicians claim: Mozart was Austrian but Hitler was German. Austria was Hitler's first foreign victim. We are not responsible and we have nothing to do with Hitler and his Nazis. Therefore we want to forget and ignore or destroy historical places.
And tomorrow they have their election wo will be next president:
a liberal, progressive, democratic and european thinking man wo wants to be a president for all, above party lines
or someone wo his chauvinistic, xenophobic, authoritarian and prefering his party's interests?

[JLEES]

Sorry, Manfred, but history is history. Many Austrians welcomed the Nazis with open arms during the Anschluss and there was a high percentage of your countrymen that joined the NSDAP before and after 1938. Just because people wish to "forget and ignore" their past and selective historical sites now for modern political reasons doesn't shouldn't mean it should be white washed or expediently destroyed. Hitler's Birthplace Home could be used as a anti-Nazi learning tool for future generations, just as they've done with other historic sites throughout Europe.

On another note: good luck in your election. In the USA we've been hijacked by a right wing nut-job that continues to be willfully ignorant of the world and the next four years should be interesting, to say the least.

[James Paul]

Sorry, Manfred, but history is history. Many Austrians welcomed the Nazis with open arms during the Anschluss and there was a high percentage of your countrymen that joined the NSDAP before and after 1938. Just because people wish to "forget and ignore" their past and selective historical sites now for modern political reasons doesn't shouldn't mean it should be white washed or expediently destroyed. Hitler's Birthplace Home could be used as a anti-Nazi learning tool for future generations, just as they've done with other historic sites throughout Europe.

On another note: good luck in your election. In the USA we've been hijacked by a right wing nut-job that continues to be willfully ignorant of the world and the next four years should be interesting, to say the least.

ManfredV never said those were his words, he said "Many austrians and of course many of their politicians claim:" before saying what you have responded to.

I doubt he would disagree with what you have said.

[JLEES]

I know. I never accused him of actually believing it. That's why I responded, "Sorry, Manfred, but history is history. Many Austrians...."

[James Paul]

I know. I never accused him of actually believing it. That's why I responded, "Sorry, Manfred, but history is history. Many Austrians...."

You said "Sorry, Manfred" nor a colon so it came across that you were replying to the poster and not just the content itself.

It's a minute thing anyway, never mind.

[JLEES]

Have a great day or I should say evening in Scotland, James!

[James Paul]

Have a great day or I should say evening in Scotland, James!

Thanks. Have a great day too.

May I ask, do Americans today consider Austrians and Germans to be separate people? I remember reading that the census for the record of Austrian Americans is rather difficult to get accurately because many of them are counted as German Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Americans

[JLEES]

That's a good question. I believe most Americans don't even think about that issue racially. They just understand Austrians and Germans speak the same language. Following the Great War many Austrians wanted to have an Anschluss with Germany and for a time this was a popular movement there; however, it kind of died during the latter 1920s and then started to resurface again in the 1930s. Therefore, many Austrians considered themselves "Germans" and this carried into how Americans looked at them at one point or another. But, during WWII Americans didn't make any distinctions between the two. After the war the Austrian Government attempted to repaint themselves as "the first victim of Nazism" to white-wash their involvement with the Third Reich and have generally been very successful. Therefore, I don't think there's any overall American perception of how we look at them. That is a good question though.

[James Paul]

That's a good question. I believe most Americans don't even think about that issue racially. They just understand Austrians and Germans speak the same language.

Obama apparently does not, he thinks Austrian is a language, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1diNthezRk

Following the Great War many Austrians wanted to have an Anschluss with Germany and for a time this was a popular movement there; however, it kind of died during the latter 1920s and then started to resurface again in the 1930s. Therefore, many Austrians considered themselves "Germans" and this carried into how Americans looked at them at one point or another.

The idea of Austria being part of Germany had first come about when Germany was becoming unified as a nation-state in the mid 1800s. If history had turned out differently, Austria would have unified Germany and Prussia would have been excluded. Immediately after the end of WWI "German-Austria" was forbidden from joining Germany.

Many areas on the Austro-German border have changed rule between Austrian and Bavarian. Two examples are Hitler's birth place Braunau am Inn, if Hitler had been born 70 years earlier he would have been born under Bavarian rule and Mozart was born in Salzburg which was then part of the Archbishopric of Salzburg and did not become Austrian until years after his death.

Yet, the old joke is that the Austrians have convinced the world that Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler was German and they also don't like it if Mozart is referred to as a German composer, ignoring the fact he considered himself German.

The idea Austrians are not Germans is simply a post-WWII myth. Although many Austrians today, understandably, will become sensitive if you try and refer to them as Germans, facts are facts. It took decades after the war for Austrians to distance themselves from considering themselves German. I wonder how many these days do consider themselves as Germans, or at least acknowledge they are ethnic Germans.

But, during WWII Americans didn't make any distinctions between the two. After the war the Austrian Government attempted to repaint themselves as "the first victim of Nazism" to white-wash their involvement with the Third Reich and have generally been very successful. Therefore, I don't think there's any overall American perception of how we look at them. That is a good question though.

Understandably, neither did the Austrians.

Another misconception is that the idea of Austria being annexed to Germany was an invasion and simply Nazi propaganda.

[JLEES]

I agree. There was a time when the Germans could have been united under Hapsburg rule, but it went the other way.

When I first visited Austria in 1975, I spoke with a person named "Max" in Salzburg who remembered the Anschluss very fondly and thought his country should become part of Germany again. He was a WWII veteran and enjoyed talking about Stukas. He flew them before being shot down and became a POW in 1940. It was one of the best bar conversations I have ever had that lasted hours. I'm sure there are still many Austrians that wish they were part of Germany again, but as the postwar period gets longer and longer that will continue to fade.