Berghof Obersalzberg

[Timo-T]

Thank you Geoff,
Oh yes, the little picture of the map is in F. Beierls book, I forgot this. But, how you wrote, it is not the best quality for optimal viewing.
So I will see, that I can buy one copy of that book from Max Hartmann.
Many greetings.

[Annelie]

wow, thankyou Max and Geoff.

Pretty sure that is the Lochner I was looking for.
I spent hours on Sunday searching and came up with nothing but what I posted which
was entirely off the track but interesting.

Interesting that Lochner's property was bought by Bormann. I had no idea or even considered if
there was any connection with what was going on at the time...it all connects.

Now if I can only find something I can afford....those paintings Max kindly found where his early works
and late he mainly did decorative panels..Lochner is another well known name in the area.

[tunix0]

Hi,

I found in the older postings of this thread some pictures of the "Hartmann Map". Also on Geoffs Website I can see some little pictures of this map.
Where can I find or buy this (complete) map? Is this map in a book? Shows this map all buildings on the Obersalzberg? Please give me some infos about this map. Thanks

Hi Timo!

I would also like to have the Hartmann Maps. The maps in his book can be scanned relatively well. But the entire maps would be better, for sure.

Another good historical map can be found here:
http://www.stbats.bayern.de/hochbau/wettbewerbe.php

This link has already been posted in this thread. The desired document is "06_04_hist. Lageplan (PDF)". It is a very accurate representation of the entire Obersalzberg.It extends from the Gutshof over the Speer houses in the west, to the Hintereck homes in the East and it has a high resolution.

Maybe this helps you.

Bye
Christian

[tunix0]

OK - so this before the Berghof renovation/construction but someone has managed to manoeuvre what looks like a very large car in a space smaller than that available in front of and beside the Berghof steps [same as near the flag?]

Hi Max,

when I was looking on the website (Wettbewerb) for the maps, i noticed the historical photos. There is a picture called "Bild 05_09_Berghof" and its source reference is listed as „Fahrzeugpark des Berghofs, ca. 1942 Walter Frentz Collection, Berlin".

It shows four cars on the parking lot and that a turn is quite possible with those cars. I think we should agree that it was made differently depending on the situation.

Bye
Christian

[Jeroen7]

Obersalzberg Now & Then. Last year we visited the place of the former Berghof, went under ground via Hotel zum Türken & Gästehaus Hoher Göll and walked to the Mooslahnerkopf. We went up to the Kehlsteinhaus and finally did go for a ride on the water of the Königsse and Obersee.

Two weeks ago I visited the Obersazlberg again to see some things I did not see last year. As it looks about five new episodes will come to your screen. Let's begin with episode 7 about the former Kampfhäusl. Enjoy!

YouTube: http://youtu.be/1hQgp1jSa-M
Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/107232556

All episodes:
Episode 1: http://youtu.be/uEUgmhIvnj0 (The Berghof)
Episode 2: http://youtu.be/C_kbsXGGwLc (Berghof bunkes)
Episode 3: http://youtu.be/wX9KaKQbPew (Mooslahnerkopf)
Episode 4: http://youtu.be/6pnysjlORK8 (Gästehaus Hoher Göll)
Episode 5: http://youtu.be/vKVvDYYyMds (Kehlsteinhaus)
Episode 6: http://youtu.be/r9_2M13asK0 (Königssee/Obersee)
Episode 7: http://youtu.be/1hQgp1jSa-M (Kampfhäusl)

[tunix0]

Two weeks ago I visited the Obersazlberg again to see some things I did not see last year. As it looks about five new episodes will come to your screen. Let's begin with episode 7 about the former Kampfhäusl. Enjoy!

Very nice Videos! Very well made!

I think its not easy to get the right alignment for those now and then shots.

And now we all know what you look like. Thanks to the elevator.

[Jeroen7]

Very nice Videos! Very well made!
I think its not easy to get the right alignment for those now and then shots.

Thanx, I really like doing this and getting nice comments too. It is indeed difficult, but I'm learning more and more after every photo, like where to look to get the perfect angle. Some old photos are taken at such a difficult position or at positions not public anymore or hidden behind massive trees. But that gives me a challenge to still try and make the best of it (like the next episode of the Platterhof, but you'll see).

And now we all know what you look like. Thanks to the elevator.

Haha... smart boy, but there was a quicker way by watching the "Behind the scenes" (http://youtu.be/Io4i-DUh9Jc).

[Timo-T]

@Jeroen
Nice videos! Thank you!
I had the same weather as you at my visit at the Kehlsteinhaus in this July.
But before I was going down, the fog goes away for some minutes and I could enjoy the nice view of the Obersalzberg and Berchtesgaden.
Many Greetings!

[Timo-T]

Hi Timo!

I would also like to have the Hartmann Maps. The maps in his book can be scanned relatively well. But the entire maps would be better, for sure.

Another good historical map can be found here:
http://www.stbats.bayern.de/hochbau/wettbewerbe.php

This link has already been posted in this thread. The desired document is "06_04_hist. Lageplan (PDF)". It is a very accurate representation of the entire Obersalzberg.It extends from the Gutshof over the Speer houses in the west, to the Hintereck homes in the East and it has a high resolution.

Maybe this helps you.

Bye
Christian

Thank you Christian,
I know the map in your link and the map is good, but it shows not all buildings, like Antenbergsiedlung or Jugendverpflegsheim. So the Original map is that, what I want, in the hope that this shows all buildings of the old time 1945. But I have ordered the book for little money now. For the first time it is better as nothing, I think

[Geoff Walden]

Simply superb, Jeroen! Great quality, composition, everything. I like how you stopped on the Kampfhäusl path and then turned to look at the foundation. I know a couple people who have walked that path but told me they didn't ever see the ruin, because they never did look up to their left.

You're so right - it's a fun challenge to try to stand right where the original photographer did and hold the camera the same way. I had the same experience at KZ Dora in July - there was a huge tree grown up on the exact spot where I needed to stand.

[Geoff Walden]

Another good historical map can be found here:
http://www.stbats.bayern.de/hochbau/wettbewerbe.php
This link has already been posted in this thread. The desired document is "06_04_hist. Lageplan (PDF)". It is a very accurate representation of the entire Obersalzberg.It extends from the Gutshof over the Speer houses in the west, to the Hintereck homes in the East and it has a high resolution.Bye
Christian

Hi Christian,

Speaking of this map (which doesn't show the Kamphäusl or the Jugendverpflegsheim BTW), does anyone know what are the small black squares just to the upper right of the Göring Adjutant house? That's the area where the Adler/Murmeltier Gehege is today, but I've no idea what those squares represented.

Geoff

[tunix0]

Thank you Christian,
I know the map in your link and the map is good, but it shows not all buildings, like Antenbergsiedlung or Jugendverpflegsheim. So the Original map is that, what I want, in the hope that this shows all buildings of the old time 1945. But I have ordered the book for little money now. For the first time it is better as nothing, I think

Ah okay. Damn, i've seen such a map with the Antenbergsiedlung and the Jugendverpflegsheim when i was searching the Hartmann Maps. But i forgot where i found it... Both were drawn on it an it was a detailed plan of the area. At that moment i've seen this map i was thinking "if only I have had this map when I was there", because i didn't exactly know where the Antenbergsiedlung was.

I will search again...

[Geoff Walden]

Hi Christian,

Let us know which map that is, if you find it again. I can't think which one it is.

The Hartmann map does not, unfortunately, show Lager Antenberg (or any other worker buildings, or, naturally, any tunnel works). Lager Antenberg is shown on the 1945 JIOA/CIOS plan (along with Lager Riemerfeld and many of the tunnel systems), but the published version of this map is so poorly printed that these items can hardly be made out in scans of this map.

Geoff

[Obsidian]

Good work Jeroen7

[Jeroen7]

Lucky you, the next episode has been released much faster. This time it's all about the Platterhof.

And... for the first time Ruiter Productions used a new technique of filming: from the air. Enjoy!

YouTube: http://youtu.be/DmJ2ZEXl64A
Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/107339248

All episodes:
Episode 1: http://youtu.be/uEUgmhIvnj0 (The Berghof)
Episode 2: http://youtu.be/C_kbsXGGwLc (Berghof bunkes)
Episode 3: http://youtu.be/wX9KaKQbPew (Mooslahnerkopf)
Episode 4: http://youtu.be/6pnysjlORK8 (Gästehaus Hoher Göll)
Episode 5: http://youtu.be/vKVvDYYyMds (Kehlsteinhaus)
Episode 6: http://youtu.be/r9_2M13asK0 (Königssee/Obersee)
Episode 7: http://youtu.be/1hQgp1jSa-M (Kampfhäusl)
Episode 8: http://youtu.be/DmJ2ZEXl64A (Platterhof)