Berghof Obersalzberg

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Johnnyrocket
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4231

Post by Johnnyrocket » 29 Jul 2015, 16:30

EXPLORING THE TUNNELS UNDER THE BERGHOF

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ex ... ation-town
tunnel.jpg
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AlainDucasse
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4232

Post by AlainDucasse » 06 Aug 2015, 13:12

Haus Hudler.JPG
House Hudler ("Haus Hudler"), Bormann House (ex. private home of Dr. Seitz - Villa Seitz?) - Some sources say "House Hudler" (owner Dr. Seitz) is the former "Bormann House" and some sources say these houses are different, there is a "House Hudler" (owner Dr. Seitz) and there is the "Bormann House" (ex. private home of Dr. Seitz which Bormann rebuilt) as shown on the attached photo. Can somebody help?


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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4233

Post by Geoff Walden » 06 Aug 2015, 16:09

Hi Alain,

Villa Seitz became the Bormann Haus. Haus Hudler was torn down ca. 1937, along with those other houses and buildings that were along the Obersalzberg road, going up the hill from the Tuerken to the Hintereck area.

I'm trying to figure out what that wooden structure at the right of the photo was ...

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4234

Post by Johnnyrocket » 06 Aug 2015, 16:14

Geoff Walden wrote:Hi Alain,

Villa Seitz became the Bormann Haus. Haus Hudler was torn down ca. 1937, along with those other houses and buildings that were along the Obersalzberg road, going up the hill from the Tuerken to the Hintereck area.

I'm trying to figure out what that wooden structure at the right of the photo was ...

Could the structure be an "observation" platform? Looks like something you would see in a state park for mountain viewing?
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4235

Post by Geoff Walden » 06 Aug 2015, 17:11

I think you're probably right, JR. As far as I can tell, it was sitting on the Bodnerbichl hill, about where the air-raid siren was later located (above the Platterhof garage - where the Kehlstein bus lot is located today), which was the next highest land around there, after Goering's Hill (seen in the background).

In other news, workers clearing a storm drain on the Obersalzberg found a phosphorus grenade and other WW2 era munitions - right by the traffic circle at the exit to the parking lot for the Dokumentation Obersalzberg and the Kehlstein bus ticket office.

http://www.berchtesgadener-anzeiger.de/ ... 21231.html

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4236

Post by AlainDucasse » 07 Aug 2015, 09:14

Thanks GW & JR. The "wooden structure" at the right should be a simple ski-jump aacording to some sources, for me it looks like so. Attached another interesting view of the area.
PS.: @Geoff: If the Bormann house is the former Villa Seitz, there is a wrong description at your site http://www.thirdreichruins.com/bormgoer.htm
Haus Hudler2.JPG

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4237

Post by Geoff Walden » 07 Aug 2015, 21:04

Alain, you're absolutely right! That part of my page was written so long ago, I was obviously confused at that time too. There must be a source for that confusion ... in one of the older books on the Obersalzberg, I guess ... but I don't have access to my reference books just now. What I need to check, just to make sure, is the book Der alte Obersalzberg bis 1937, which I will check when I get back to my reference library. (Or if anyone else has this book, take a quick look under Haus Hudler.)

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Mr.Kimura
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4238

Post by Mr.Kimura » 10 Aug 2015, 01:29

Hi everybody...

after reading 283 sites of this thread i didn´t findy any infos about the both (one?) air raid shelters above Buchenhoehe.

I visited the shelter in the east side above Buchenhoehe in 2004, i tried to find it again this year with no luck, a forester told me this year the remains were removed...
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... emId=44543

The remains of the shelter in the west side still exist.
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=200409

The forester also told me the remains were removed after kids climbed into the cave - about 40m(!!??) was accessible... can´t belive this, because in 2004 i tried to get behind the busted concrete with no luck...

Are there more infos available about this two shelters, e.g. pictures or a plan?

Thanks!
Last edited by Mr.Kimura on 10 Aug 2015, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4239

Post by Geoff Walden » 10 Aug 2015, 18:01

Hi, welcome to AHF!
:welcome:

I never saw any plans of these Splitterschutzgraben (bomb shrapnel shelters). I only saw the one on the west side in 1945 US aerial photos, no other period photos. I believe the one on the east side has been gone for several years ... I can't remember the last time I saw it. It was not there when I visited in May this year. There were also some building ruins on the lower west side of Buchenhoehe that were removed about 10 years ago - the local kids were partying in there, so the authorities removed these ruins. This may be when the east side shelter was removed. But I doubt there was any 40 meter tunnel there, if it was like the one on the west side (and other Splitterschutzgraben shelters around there). There is one down at the bottom of the Lager Riemerfeld site that is intact, so it is possible to see how these shelters were designed and constructed - have you seen this one (down below the road near the first bridge)? (This 1945 photo shows the one on the west side, in ruins now.)
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Mr.Kimura
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4240

Post by Mr.Kimura » 10 Aug 2015, 19:59

Dear Geoff,

thanks for the info!

Great view!

On the top left above the Splitterschutzgang is there a Moll bunker? - Its remainings could be also found in this area:
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=200432

You mean this removed buildings:
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=181679

And if you mean the other intact shelter:
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=200125
I thougt this was part of Flak Klaushöhe!? - maybe i´m wrong?
But the construction of this shelter is different to the both at Buchenhöhe

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4241

Post by Geoff Walden » 11 Aug 2015, 01:33

Mr.Kimura wrote: On the top left above the Splitterschutzgang is there a Moll bunker? - Its remainings could be also found in this area:
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=200432
I have always thought that looked like a Moll Bunker in that photo, but I have to say, I never went to look for any remains. :oops: I see there ARE remains, thanks to our friend "Bunkerfreunde" (who has a great webpage).

Oh wait ... is that your webpage? If so, I have used your page extensively in my research! Very helpful!
Mr.Kimura wrote: You mean this removed buildings:
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=181679
Yes, you can see a couple more photos at http://thirdreichruins.com/miscbldgsosb ... uchenhoehe .
Mr.Kimura wrote: And if you mean the other intact shelter:
http://www.bunkerfreunde-muenchen.de/ma ... mId=200125
I thougt this was part of Flak Klaushöhe!? - maybe i´m wrong?
But the construction of this shelter is different to the both at Buchenhöhe
This is the one I mean - http://thirdreichruins.com/bunkers.htm#luftwaffebunker (from here, scroll down 4 lines of photos, to where the caption mentions Lager Riemerfeld). Oh, I see that's on the Bunkerfreunde page as well. I don't think that was associated with any Flak at Klaushoehe ... just a shelter for the bottom end of Lager Riemerfeld (which was right across the road - there was a Moll Bunker there too). The little "brick box" I think is just the ruin of one of the worker buildings that was located there. The construction of the main shelter may have been a little different from those above Buchenhoehe (like, the entrances), but it was essentially the same thing. Same purpose, anyway.

Geoff

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Annelie
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4242

Post by Annelie » 12 Aug 2015, 14:20

Bit of a diversion but perhaps it may be linked to WWII?

Gold found in Königssee

http://www.suedost-news.de/region+lokal ... 22498.html

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English Translation of "Hitlers Berg"

#4243

Post by Geoff Walden » 25 Aug 2015, 19:37

There is (finally!) a new English translation of Florian Beierl's seminal work on the Obersalzberg, Hitlers Berg. The English version is called Inside Hitler's Mountain, and I found it available on Amazon and ebay.de. ISBN - 978-3-929825-15-2.

As far as I can tell so far, this is not an updated edition, but a translation of the original German edition from 2004. That is, so far as I have read, this translation does not include tunnels and info that have come to light since the original edition. But I really look forward to reading this whole book (easier and faster for me than reading the German). :D

For those who haven't seen the German editions, this is THE best source for the history of the Obersalzberg, concentrating on the tunnel systems. Highly recommended!

Geoff

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4244

Post by Annelie » 13 Oct 2015, 23:15

Interesting old photo before final renovation it seems.
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4245

Post by Geoff Walden » 14 Oct 2015, 17:37

This is a GREAT view, Annelie! Thanks, I never saw this one before.
:thumbsup:
Very early - that's the first (1933) garage added to Haus Wachenfeld, and this was before the NS-era changes/additions to the Hotel zum Türken.

In related news, it has been decided that there will be no casino in the Berchtesgaden train station (Bahnhof), which is now privately owned.

http://www.berchtesgadener-anzeiger.de/ ... 33806.html

There will be an Irish pub instead. :milsmile:

Also, The planned destruction of the Third Reich period access roads in the Kehlstein area was not done this year, as originally scheduled. The plans are on hold, because various agencies cannot come to a consensus whether the pavement of these roads actually presents a verifiable danger to the water table.

Geoff

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