Berghof Obersalzberg

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RobertD1
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4336

Post by RobertD1 » 15 Jan 2016, 17:37

I'm wondering if anyone else on AHF is planning to visit the Obersalzberg this spring? I will likely be there in May also. I know some folks have discussed having an AHF member "meet" on the OSB sometime, but no concrete planning came out of it ...
An AHF member meet on the OSB sounds like a great plan to me! Count me in - looking forward to it! :D

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4337

Post by Geoff Walden » 15 Jan 2016, 18:40

Geoff Walden wrote:I'm trying to figure out who is the Colonel of the 3rd Infantry Division who is seen in several photos. I know LTC John Heintges and LTC Ken Wallace were there, but I can't recall reading of a full-bird COL from 3ID there.
I had Heintges' rank wrong - he was a COL in May 1945. The other O-6 COL's in 3ID in May 1945 were Col. Charles E. Johnson, Col. Hallett D. Edson, and Col. Lionel C. McGarr. I could not find photos online of Johnson or Edson, but I did find McGarr and it definitely wasn't him. I also found this photo of Heintges in my files, and I believe the officer seen in Lee Miller's photos was indeed Col. John Heintges.

So, let us "treffen uns" on the Obersalzberg in May!

Geoff
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Alpenfestung
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4338

Post by Alpenfestung » 15 Jan 2016, 19:12

Amazing pictures, I LOVE the cars - is that one of Goering's Mercedes cabriolets inside the garage?
Geoff Walden wrote: What's that odd camouflage-painted VW-looking car seen from above?
That looks like a Tatra 87, with a BMW next to it


Peter
"Change is easy.....improvement is far more difficult"
(Ferdinand Porsche)

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Alpenfestung
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4339

Post by Alpenfestung » 15 Jan 2016, 19:39

RobertD1 wrote:
I think you are right, they must have had an earlier version of the Hartmann map.
Peter, Geoff: the last picture is a little hard to read in the center, but here are a few more observations ........
Ok, what's a couple more creases in the poor old map.... :milsmile: .....here's a scan of the center section:
rsz_1osbmap004.jpg
map (center section)
Strange that the Postamt and Modellhaus are missing.

The overall quality of the map is ok, not great - the center part is a little faded and worn. Geoff, the label north of the Obertallehen reads "Roesche" (spelled with the o-Umlaut)

Peter
"Change is easy.....improvement is far more difficult"
(Ferdinand Porsche)

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Cor
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4340

Post by Cor » 15 Jan 2016, 21:23

Geoff Walden wrote:
Cor wrote:Some interesting pictures of Berchtesgaden and the Obersalzberg.
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/01/14/45661/
Superb! Thanks! I believe these are all Lee Miller's photos, although I have only ever seen two or three of them before. Myself, I would have been right in there with the looters! Check out the look on that one guy's face - caught red-handed! :milsmile:
Some photo's ive seen before, but there were some i've never seen before. The picture which interest me the most is this one
https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-conte ... 2970_n.jpg

Is this building still there, i've searched on google and it must be in the neigbourhood of siegsdorf. Because the road is the 306 and it's 12 kilometers from inzell. I think if im looking correct the text on the building is josef lautenbacher, but i didn't find a hit on google.

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Alpenfestung
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4341

Post by Alpenfestung » 15 Jan 2016, 21:34

Cor wrote: Is this building still there, i've searched on google and it must be in the neigbourhood of siegsdorf. Because the road is the 306 and it's 12 kilometers from inzell. I think if im looking correct the text on the building is josef lautenbacher, but i didn't find a hit on google.
Looks like there is a Metzgerei Lautenbacher in Siegsdorf:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rudol ... IQ_BIIbDAK

Could this be it?

Peter
"Change is easy.....improvement is far more difficult"
(Ferdinand Porsche)

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4342

Post by Geoff Walden » 15 Jan 2016, 22:22

Thanks, Peter, that's much clearer! They did get most of the "probable" tunnel entrances pretty close.
Geoff

Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4343

Post by Mannheim » 16 Jan 2016, 03:39

Loved the Lee Miller link that Cor posted.One question to Geoff: is the Hotel Post Leithaus building still standing?
Coincidentally, I took this (colour) picture from the front of my hotel in Berchtesgaden on 1st November last year and was surprised to find a fairly close match (I think) in one of Lee Miller's. Now that I am retired I will probably spend the rest of the day/week trying to match other photos.
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A few more buildings since 1945.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4344

Post by Geoff Walden » 16 Jan 2016, 18:02

Congrats on your retirement, Gary! It won't be too long before I join those ranks myself. :milwink:
The historic Hotel Post was torn down about 2006 to make way for the Edelweiss Hotel complex in Berchtesgaden.
I think your hotel photo was pretty close!
Geoff

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Alpenfestung
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4345

Post by Alpenfestung » 18 Jan 2016, 02:06

I just found this amazing Berghof construction animation on youtube, don't remember reading anything about it here on the forum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPdvxmD6nqg

WOW - great work!

Peter
"Change is easy.....improvement is far more difficult"
(Ferdinand Porsche)

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4346

Post by Geoff Walden » 18 Jan 2016, 12:06

Thanks, Peter, that was a lot of work. I look forward to seeing one of these efforts that shows the finished interior, with furniture and decorations. I know that such a thing is in the works, but I haven't seen any final products. I see that this forum was used as a source (and a certain webpage as well). :milwink:

I like this one too. I recommend it for anyone who has not had the opportunity to stay at the Hotel zum Türken, even though the film is rather dark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7UcFhwkbSs

Here is a view from the Kehlsteinhaus webcam this morning. brrr!
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Geoff Walden
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The French Capture Hitler's Wine

#4347

Post by Geoff Walden » 19 Jan 2016, 17:47

There are several errors and some of what I would call outright BS in this article, but it's an interesting account from the French point of view.
Geoff

http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/ ... ity-france

Wines 'N' Such: Wine characterizes personality of France

By Ron Drinkhouse
Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 4:40 pm (Updated: January 13, 4:40 pm)

On May 4, 1945, a young French tank commander by the name of Bernard de Nanancourt found himself and his Free French comrades close to the town of Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps. This notorious site was a vacation home to a group of infamous individuals named Hitler, Goring, Goebbels, Himmler and Borman.
Looking up at the centerpiece of this enclave, from the base of the mountain, de Nanancourt tried to picture the awful atrocities conceived from this “Eagle’s Nest” as it was called, when suddenly his thoughts were interrupted by his commander.
“You’re from Champagne, right de Nanancourt?” the boss asked. “So you must know something about wine ... Come with me.
“Up there,” he said, pointing to the top of the mountain, “is a dugout ... where Hitler put the wine he stole from France ... and you are in charge of getting it back.”
What they went on to find was an enormous cave-cellar containing a treasure store of some half-million of the greatest wines ever made, including all the illustrious first growths of Bordeaux and Burgundy, along with exceptional old ports and cognacs, as well as hundreds of cases of 1928 Salon Champagne — the finest, some say, ever created.
All of this belonged to a man who could not care less about wine. In fact, he didn’t even like it. That man was, of course, Adolph Hitler. And the huge stock-pile epitomized the Nazi symbol for avarice and arrogance, the greed for illicit private property bought with the blood of millions of innocent souls.
To understand the true magnitude of this find, we Americans need to understand that wine was such an intrinsic part of France’s heritage as to characterize and embody the national personality or basic character of the country.
De Nanancourt with his team began climbing to the top of the mountain called Eagle’s Nest, an altitude of some 8,000 feet, which left them breathless. The gigantic steel door blocking the cave was jammed. Eventually, they used explosives to open it and finally investigate this vast plunder of their country.
Hitler had built an elevator in solid rock to reach this aerie from his home below, but it sadly was broken beyond repair. The question now: how to safely bring half a million bottles of wine down a steep mountain?
What happened was one of the most implausible evacuations of the war. Over 200 soldiers were involved along with an alpine team of mountaineers who provided stretchers used to carry fallen climbers. The wine cases placed in these stretchers were lowered some 200 yards (two football fields at least) from the peak, to waiting teams of bearers, who then hiked their fragile prizes so carefully down the steep mountain trail to a waiting assemblage of tanks, trucks, and other military transports.
The troops stripped their vehicles of everything non-essential including clothes, tools and ammo. Another thing happened once the wine was brought down and this was a celebration unlike any these Free French fighters had celebrated before; a wine party which the French referred to as “le repos du guerrier,” or the warrior’s break between battles.
The aftermath was a minor skirmish between the French forces and arriving American soldiers. It seems the French general had raised his country’s flag over Hitler’s mountain. The American chief seeing this barked out, “Get that flag down and put up the Stars and Stripes,” to which the French who were under orders complied.
They didn’t really care, you see. “It’s done,” they said referring to the wine repossession. “God’s loves the French.”
(Note: To read the complete story, see “Wine & War” by Don and Pitie Kladstrup, from which these excerpts are taken.)
For the information of gentle readers, there are three really nice California labels I have been sampling recently, along with tasting notes and prices, two reds and a white. For more detailed information go to the producer websites. “Leese – Fitch” Chardonnay 2014 was aged in new French oak for five months, lending it hints of vanilla, a mouthful of luscious melon, with a dash of citrus and a long, smooth swallow. About $12.
“Plungerhead” 2013 Lodi Zinfandel, comes with aromas of dried black cherries, along with bright flavors of blackberry cobbler, a finish of sandalwood lingers. Also about $12.Works well with just about any food.
Finally, and highly recommended for fans of pinot noir, is cutely named “Moonbuzz” 2013 Pinot Noir. Like its French cousins, earthy aromas of mushrooms are followed by a palate of red currant fruit, a nice long, velvety finish. About $19 — and highly recommended.

Ron Drinkhouse was a buyer and seller of wines in his native Connecticut. He welcomes inquiries, and can be reached via email at [email protected], or call 352-445-0328.

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Hessler86
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4348

Post by Hessler86 » 20 Jan 2016, 00:29

Today, I finally visited the Obersalzberg area for the first time in my life. The "Dokumentation Obersalzberg" really surprised me in a positive way - it was less "umerzieherisch" as one would expect. Also, there's a nice collection there of period items that I had not seen "in 3D" earlier. The bunker area as shown in earlier photos cannot be reached anymore - the plastic sheet has been replaced by a glass plaque with a map, thereby marking the end of the tour. On the other end, you can walk the corridors up to the deep service shaft (where an elevator was to come?) with a sign saying that there used to be a wooden staircase down but I couldn't see any signs of either rotting wood or shadowing indicating stairs. Also, I bought a CD at the front desk containing a few audio recordings I have not found online earlier so today was genuinely great for me. I drove up to "Zum Türken", which was closed off for winter unfortunately. Kehlsteinhaus was also inaccessable. Drove around the surrounding forest area looking for a few bunker entrances, which I also found. Tried to gain access, unsuccessfully I might add, but due to the cold and the realisation that bunkers are not shut off from layman public for nothing, I returned back to my vacation house. I must say - the Führer sure had a nice view up there, I can understand not wanting to be in Berlin 365 days a year. I made a lot of photos of the surroundings and the Dokumentation centre, but I'm sure they're just touristic snapshots that none of you buffs would care for. :)
"Merken Sie sich eins; bei uns zu Haus' sind nur die Mannschaften Ostmärker.
Die Herren Offiziere sind Österreicher! Servus Doktorchen!"

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RobertD1
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4349

Post by RobertD1 » 20 Jan 2016, 19:48

Glad you had a great time there, Hessler86! Was there a lot of snow up there?
Drove around the surrounding forest area looking for a few bunker entrances, which I also found.
Just curious: which entrances did you check?

Regards,

Robert

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Hessler86
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

#4350

Post by Hessler86 » 21 Jan 2016, 22:03

`turk1.jpg
There was quite a lot of snow up there, but I always love snow. :)
Well, I'm not sure as to what these bunker entrances actually are - however, I found a number of 'bunkeresque entrances' with actual doors on them, which were unfortunately locked. One door actually gave a little, but not enough so I could get in. I saw utter darkness behind the door, so I presume it is the entrance to another tunnel system or some such.
"Merken Sie sich eins; bei uns zu Haus' sind nur die Mannschaften Ostmärker.
Die Herren Offiziere sind Österreicher! Servus Doktorchen!"

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