Berlin Martin Luther Memorial Church

[TER]

Hello: I tried to post this earlier (got lost) There was an article in the London Times this week about the Martin Luther Memorial Church in Berlin. Has anyone been inside this church? Know where one could find photographs of the church? Any personal impressions if you have seen the church? I am a history major and we are studying the 3rd reich at the moment. Thank you - Tim

[huajiro]

I hope this is what you are looking for:

http://www.greatcommission.com/berlin/06.jpg

http://www.greatcommission.com/berlin/10.jpg

Door where Martin Luther tacked his 95 theses:

http://www.greatcommission.com/berlin/13.jpg

http://www.greatcommission.com/berlin/12.jpg

[nondescript handle]

I hope this is what you are looking for:[...]

That's the Palace Church [Schlosskirche] in Wittenberg.

The Martin Luther Memorial Church [Martin-Luther-Gedächtniskirche] is a church in Berlin build in the thirties. It's interior has several references to the Third Reich: SA and Wehrmacht men, iron crosses and so on.

The Lutheran congregation of Berlin-Mariendorf, to which the church belongs, has a website (http://www.ev-kirchengemeinde-mariendorf.de/) with some (not very detailed) pictures of the interior: http://www.ev-kirchengemeinde-mariendor ... mlgk02.htm

Regards
Mark

[huajiro]

I normally dont post something that I am not sure about.......since I really couldn't find anything but that, I posted it.

Thanks for clarifying

[TER]

Thank you for the website address. This is quite valuable to me and will help me with a paper I am writing - particularly the picture of the baptismal font with the storm trooper at the base (I had read about this). I am preparing a paper on the proper disposition of symbols, language or architecture that carry a negative connotation and whether or not they should be removed or preserved. My position is that they should be preserved for two reasons: one, they stand as physical evidence of things that actually happened or positions once held as appropriate by society: and, two - they can provide warnings. The pieces I will be comparing this with are: memorials to Confederate soldiers in town squares in the South, and the few remaining "colored" or "whites only" signs that remain on derelict buildings. Again, thank you for direction to this site.

Tim Revis

[Walter Wulfsen]

Thank you for the website address. This is quite valuable to me and will help me with a paper I am writing - particularly the picture of the baptismal font with the storm trooper at the base (I had read about this). I am preparing a paper on the proper disposition of symbols, language or architecture that carry a negative connotation and whether or not they should be removed or preserved. My position is that they should be preserved for two reasons: one, they stand as physical evidence of things that actually happened or positions once held as appropriate by society: and, two - they can provide warnings. The pieces I will be comparing this with are: memorials to Confederate soldiers in town squares in the South, and the few remaining "colored" or "whites only" signs that remain on derelict buildings. Again, thank you for direction to this site.

Tim Revis

Hello Ter,

I could not agree with you more. These physical things (symbolic art, architecture, monuments, etc) should be preserved at all costs, for the reasons you mentioned, making it all the more difficult to deny the truth of political/ecclesiastical alliances, intermingling of thoughts, synergism, symbiosis, etc for future generations. It is more difficult to delete the truth from history books, texts and our collective hitorical/cultural knowledge base when the physical evidence is all around one, eg, Nazi symbolism in churches and death camps in Germany. You might like to check another interesting thread in this section of the forum, Propaganda, Culture, & Architecture, which is linked below.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=97736

Best,

Walter

[Sampo Jämbeck]

Well, I tried to visit the church (Martin Luther Gedänischkirche - not sure how it's written) last month, but it was closed because it's restored.
I tried to visit the church inside but never got there.
I asked some of the people working for deacony mission (or something like that)
to help me get inside the church, but no.
They just told me to come later when the restoring is done.
Church is located about 2 or 3 kilometers south from Tempelhof.
I walked from Berlin Hbf. to Mariendorf and back - for nothing...
Well I got nice booklet about church (no pictures from inside the church)
couple of photos outside and a nice walk.

But here's some links to the pictures of that church:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1 ... 22,00.html

http://www.nobeliefs.com/mementoes.htm

[HaEn]

I cannot see anything "nazi" in the interior of the church.
I see a man wearing a stahlhelm, which could be ww1 or a "forerunner" of "Dark Vader' Or . . . .a universal model, worn the world over.
I also see an iron cross, or a "malthese cross" used as an ornament.
Further I see a person holding a plain old german peasant's cap.
So where the hell do these idiots see anything "nazi" ?????
Even "swastikas" predated the "nazis" by a couple of thousand years.
How crazy can you get.
I bet, after the "restauration", the 'politically correct' bunch will have had their way, and the "symbols" will have been altered, or removed.
Oh wel..
HN

[HaEn]

Sudden silence ?!
No comment to tell me how wrong I am ?

An uncle brought home a couple of copper lions/ashtrays when he came on leave from the Royal Colonial Army in Oost Indie (Indonesia)
It was adorned with swastikas

Oh those darn natives of Java of the 1930's, all of them secret nazis :roll:

See my point ?

HN

[nondescript handle]

With all due respect HaEn, but: No, I don't see your point.

Do you really suggest that a swastika in a Berlin church build late 1933 ("the year God gave us the great leader of our nation, Adolf Hitler" to cite the document in the cornerstone of that very church) and positioned under a quotation of A. Hitler is intended as an Hindu-Buddhist-Shinto good luck symbol and not as a national-socialist symbol?

Regards
Mark

[HaEn]

Unless there is a "plan" or mandate by the Church elders, or some drawing by an architect, denoting that "symbols of the National Socialist era" should be incorporated, I choose to asume that these things were coincidal.
There must have been an architect with an office, who drew plans for the church building.
They are still finding all kinds of papers and records "proving" how bad the regime was. So why would we not assume that this also can be found, somewhere in the church perhaps ?
Anyway, don't worry; they will have been removed or shielded from view when the restauration is complete, compliments of the "oh so politically correct"
Thanks for the reaction Mark,
HN

[Von Odine]

I saw a older gentleman the other day on a Seattle street wearing a white sweatshirt with the crest of the old Soviet Navy... the Hammer and Sickle superimposed on the world over an anchor (superficially much like the US Marine Corps crest)... with the caption "Leningrad Yacht Club" below it. No one was attacking him, yelling at him, flipping him off... or even really noticing. Imagine the reaction if it had been a Kriegsmarine Eagle clutching a Hakenkrutz with the caption "Wilhelmshaven Yacht Club".. Knowing the intolerant political correctness of Seattle, I doubt he would have gotten 3 blocks. Considering that Stalin was responsible for at least twice as many deaths as Hitler and the Soviet Union likely 4 to 5 times as many overall than the Third Reich (granted in a much larger period), this strikes me as the height of hypocrisy. Ditto for shirts bearing the likeness of Mao (the Grand Master Champion of Mass Murder) or, to a lesser extent, Che'. Methinks a double standard is at work here.

Anyone know where I can get one of those old Adolf Hitler European Tour "concert" shirts from the 1980s??

[Von Odine]

Found it!

http://www.sumosam.co.uk/erol.html#9708 ... 2Ftoc.html

[TER]

Ah, well - this post certainly took a strange turn! I haven't looked at it for over a year. However, the research documents for that particular paper were fascinating. (Sorry, HaEn - it was nazi influenced - two Lutheran diocese at the time - one very married to the party) Anyway, too much to go into now, but it ultimately led me to graduate school, where I am now working on a MHP degree. I looked this up again while expanding the research on my master's thesis - which will likely be on the subject of preservation of just such buildings. (I still think they are odious, but should be preserved). Thanks, Tim (Note to HaEn: the original swastikas that were surmounted by iron wreaths and positioned directly beneath the stations of the cross were removed directly after the war in compliance with German government regulations regarding the display of the symbol. The figure on the baptismal font is, indeed, modeled on a storm trooper - per design).