Discussions on all aspects of the NSDAP, the other party organizations and the government. Hosted by Michael Miller & Igor Karpov.
-
Pitino
- Member
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: 24 Dec 2008, 09:58
- Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky
#16
Post
by Pitino » 06 Jul 2014, 17:18
freddiefro wrote:Another example of Rosenberg wearing "confusing" Reichsleitung collar-tabs (but, thanks to Mark Costa, they are becoming less confusing). Source: NARA
Fred
Who is that with Rosenberg???? My mind is drawing a blank to this familiar face!
Pitino
-
freddiefro
- Member
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 22:08
- Location: Michigan, USA
#17
Post
by freddiefro » 06 Jul 2014, 17:41
Pitino wrote:Who is that with Rosenberg???? My mind is drawing a blank to this familiar face!
Gauleiter Erich Koch.
Fred
-
Pitino
- Member
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: 24 Dec 2008, 09:58
- Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky
#18
Post
by Pitino » 06 Jul 2014, 22:25
freddiefro wrote:Pitino wrote:Who is that with Rosenberg???? My mind is drawing a blank to this familiar face!
Gauleiter Erich Koch.
Fred
It looks like Koch is wearing the Black Tabs to me. Why would he be wearing the Black Tabs? Thanks for dispelling my brainfreeze!
Pitino
-
Mark Costa
- Member
- Posts: 2775
- Joined: 26 Jul 2002, 18:41
- Location: USA
#19
Post
by Mark Costa » 06 Jul 2014, 23:06
I doubt very much he is wearing black tabs here, probably just the angle of the camera and lighting etc. But this is great example of "custom made" gauleiter tabs as they are piped in gold. Note the early PL shoulder boards that were abolished within months of adoption.
Mark Costa
-
Mark Costa
- Member
- Posts: 2775
- Joined: 26 Jul 2002, 18:41
- Location: USA
#20
Post
by Mark Costa » 06 Jul 2014, 23:17
Here is a photo of Theo Habicht wearing the Reichsleitung tabs in carmine with gold piping and Streicher wearing gauleiter tabs. Photo taken at the 1933 RPT. Great example of how hard it is to discern which type of tabs are being worn. Knowing the face and position of the man at the time the photo was taken can determine the tabs. Habicht was not a gauleiter at this time but would be made an honorary one years later. In 1933 he was attached for special duties to the Reichsleitung. Streicher is wearing the new uniform whereas Hofer is wearing the early 1933 uniform. Note the difference in gauleiter tabs. Hofer was an illegal gauleiter at this time but wearing the first style gauleiter tabs whereas Streicher is wearing the new tabs. ALL being used in 1933 !! Very confusing indeed.
Mark Costa
-
Attachments
-
-
freddiefro
- Member
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 22:08
- Location: Michigan, USA
#21
Post
by freddiefro » 07 Jul 2014, 01:05
Mark Costa wrote:Here is a photo of Theo Habicht wearing the Reichsleitung tabs in carmine with gold piping
Another photo of Habicht from the same event (RPT 1933). (Source: NARA)
Fred
-
Attachments
-
- habicht.jpg (82.84 KiB) Viewed 885 times
-
Mark Costa
- Member
- Posts: 2775
- Joined: 26 Jul 2002, 18:41
- Location: USA
#22
Post
by Mark Costa » 07 Jul 2014, 01:24
Fred :
Nice close up of Habicht. Also a great example of how the angle of the camera and light sources can distort the colors on tabs. In my photo above the light carmine color is very apparent, but in photo shown by you, it shows them almost being darker in color. This is why so many photos are deceiving as to what is actually being worn.
Mark Costa
-
Mark Costa
- Member
- Posts: 2775
- Joined: 26 Jul 2002, 18:41
- Location: USA
#24
Post
by Mark Costa » 10 Jul 2014, 20:50
A couple more great examples of the 1933 Reichsleitung tabs.
First photo shows Robert Ley wearing the first style Reichsleitung "SA style" tabs on his new dark brown Political leaders uniform.
Second Photo shows Ley wearing the "Reichsorganizationleiter" tabs that he and other RL members wore in 1933. Note the shortlived shoulder straps.
As stated in an earlier post, the "SA style" tabs were replaced by the "Reichsorganizationleiter" tabs although both styles can be seen being worn simultaneously in mid to late 1933. By the end of 1933 both styles had been completely abolished. No documentation exists for either style other than one NSDAP chart that shows the Reichsorganizationleiter tabs.
Mark Costa
-
Attachments
-
-
- Ley RL02.jpg (61.2 KiB) Viewed 814 times
-
Mark Costa
- Member
- Posts: 2775
- Joined: 26 Jul 2002, 18:41
- Location: USA
#25
Post
by Mark Costa » 10 Jul 2014, 21:02
Here is a photo I found on the internet many years ago showing an original Reichsorganizationleiter tab and two gauleiter tabs. Note how similiar they are. Even the colors are very close but that might be because of age wear. But the RL tab is piped in gold with a carmine base and the gauleiter tabs on a Red base with red piping.
Mark Costa
-
Attachments
-
-
freddiefro
- Member
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 22:08
- Location: Michigan, USA
#26
Post
by freddiefro » 07 Sep 2014, 16:45
I believe the photo below is Regierungspräsident and SS-Gruppenführer Wilhelm Freiherr von Holzschuher wearing early "SA-style" Reichsleitung collar-tabs (he was Reichsinspektor z.b.V. der Reichsleitung der NSDAP in 1934 when this photo was taken). Source: NARA.
Fred
-
Attachments
-
- Holzschuher.jpg (67.96 KiB) Viewed 696 times
-
Michal78
- Member
- Posts: 5872
- Joined: 16 May 2007, 19:39
- Location: Slovakia
#27
Post
by Michal78 » 07 Sep 2014, 20:02
Hello Fred,
I can confirm that it is him.
Michal
-
freddiefro
- Member
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 22:08
- Location: Michigan, USA
#28
Post
by freddiefro » 07 Sep 2014, 20:30
Once again, thank you Michal!
Fred
-
Mark Costa
- Member
- Posts: 2775
- Joined: 26 Jul 2002, 18:41
- Location: USA
#29
Post
by Mark Costa » 07 Sep 2014, 23:32
Fred:
You will find several photos of Holzschuher in the sets of the NARA that you have, wearing his PL uniform with the these first style Reichsleitung tabs even as late as the late July 1934 Reichsleiter/Gauleiter conference that are also in the sets. He and Feder seem to be the only ones to wear them after Jan 1934. It is interesting to note that neither of them wore the abolished second style tabs. I can only assume that their positions were not yet established to warrant new tabs. Feder of course was ousted from the party leadership around the same time and Holzschuher continued to be assigned to Hess' staff as one of his "trouble shooters". But after 1934 he only wears his SS uniform.
Mark Costa
-
freddiefro
- Member
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 22:08
- Location: Michigan, USA
#30
Post
by freddiefro » 08 Sep 2014, 00:01
Thank you very much, Mark! It helps to explain things.
Fred