Reichsminister Bormann?!
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Reichsminister Bormann?!
Hi,
a question that has puzzled me for a while is, whether Martin Bormann was a Reichsminister or not. I long thought that he was, but lately I have noticed that all the valid source all say something like: REICHSLEITER "mit den Befugnissen eines Reichsministers", or "im Rang eines Reichsministers gleichgestellt" … so the question is was he in fact a Reichsminister (promotion date) or did he just have an equevelant Rank?
Best
Halfdan S.
a question that has puzzled me for a while is, whether Martin Bormann was a Reichsminister or not. I long thought that he was, but lately I have noticed that all the valid source all say something like: REICHSLEITER "mit den Befugnissen eines Reichsministers", or "im Rang eines Reichsministers gleichgestellt" … so the question is was he in fact a Reichsminister (promotion date) or did he just have an equevelant Rank?
Best
Halfdan S.
Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
I think only an equivalent status as Hess successor in the Stab SdF/Parteikanzlei.
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
Here is the Führererlass from 29 May 1941: http://www.verfassungen.de/de/de33-45/partei41.htm.
The Chief of the Party Chancellery, Reich Leader Martin Bormann, has the powers of a Reich Minister; he is member of the Reich Government and the Ministerial Council for Reich Defense.
The Chief of the Party Chancellery, Reich Leader Martin Bormann, has the powers of a Reich Minister; he is member of the Reich Government and the Ministerial Council for Reich Defense.
Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
Just got the upcoming Thies catalogue today and they have a white PL tunic attributed to Bormann.
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
Thanks guys for your input - the question it still open though. As it stands it seems that Bormann just had an equivalent rank, that he didn't hold the title of Reichsminister … at least until he was made Parteiminister in Hitlers will.
Regards
Halfdan S.
Regards
Halfdan S.
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
Martin Bormann was appointed Ständiges Mitglied des Ministerialrates für die Reichsverteidigung (im Rang eines Reichsministers) on 29.5.1941 when he became Leiter der Parteikanzlei.
He was never member of Government. Only status of "minister without portofolio" could be consider as member of Government not equivalent rank.
(like Himmler on 1936 appointed Chef der Deutschen Polizei im Rang eines Staatssekretärs).
Georges
He was never member of Government. Only status of "minister without portofolio" could be consider as member of Government not equivalent rank.
(like Himmler on 1936 appointed Chef der Deutschen Polizei im Rang eines Staatssekretärs).
Georges
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
The title "Reichsminister ohne Geschäftsbereich" was abolished in 1938. Funny thing is though, that Bormann had two deputies; Sachbearbeiter für Innere Parteiangelegenheiten, Oberbefehlsleiter Helmut Friedrichs and Sachbearbeiter für staatsrechtliche Fragen - and here it comes - STAATSSEKRETÄR Dr. Gerhard Klopfer …
A bit strange that a person, who apparently wasn't a Reichsminister himself, had a deputy who was Staatssekretär.
My question arose as I wanted to write a sentence going "Reichsminister Bormann …" and realized that maybe he wasn't one after all guess I'l have to write Reichsleiter Bormann ...
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Halfdan S.
A bit strange that a person, who apparently wasn't a Reichsminister himself, had a deputy who was Staatssekretär.
My question arose as I wanted to write a sentence going "Reichsminister Bormann …" and realized that maybe he wasn't one after all guess I'l have to write Reichsleiter Bormann ...
Best
Halfdan S.
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
very interesting topic halfdan !
In NS Jahrbuch 1942,
the entry for Partei-Kanzlei says "as a warranty of the unity of Party and State, by decree of Führer of 29 may the Leiter der Partei-Kanzlei has the "Befugnisse" (status) of a Reichsminister and is member of the Reichsregierung and Ministerrialrat für die Reichsverteidigung.
Klopfer was then already Oberdienstleiter and Ministerialdirektor as Sachbearbeiter für Staatrechtliche Fragen (State questions)
in bio of Klopfer :
He was a senior civil servant who was attached to NSDAP.
- from april 1935 Klopfer was "zum Stab StdF Hess abg.". He reached in civil service hierarchy to ORR, Ministerialdirektor then Staatsekretar. he reach too in party hierarchy from Haupstellenleiter on 35 to Befehlsleiter der NSDAP.
"Am 21. November 1942 ernannte ihn Hitler (zusammen mit Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger) zum Staatssekretär in der Reichskanzlei, wo er als Abgesandter Bormanns dessen Machtposition sichern sollte".
So the equivalent rank of Reichminister of Bormann as Leiter der Parteikanzlei give him a dual upper position :
- in staate over the Staatssek. Klopfer
- in NSDAP over the Befehlsleiter Klopfer
Georges
In NS Jahrbuch 1942,
the entry for Partei-Kanzlei says "as a warranty of the unity of Party and State, by decree of Führer of 29 may the Leiter der Partei-Kanzlei has the "Befugnisse" (status) of a Reichsminister and is member of the Reichsregierung and Ministerrialrat für die Reichsverteidigung.
Klopfer was then already Oberdienstleiter and Ministerialdirektor as Sachbearbeiter für Staatrechtliche Fragen (State questions)
in bio of Klopfer :
He was a senior civil servant who was attached to NSDAP.
- from april 1935 Klopfer was "zum Stab StdF Hess abg.". He reached in civil service hierarchy to ORR, Ministerialdirektor then Staatsekretar. he reach too in party hierarchy from Haupstellenleiter on 35 to Befehlsleiter der NSDAP.
"Am 21. November 1942 ernannte ihn Hitler (zusammen mit Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger) zum Staatssekretär in der Reichskanzlei, wo er als Abgesandter Bormanns dessen Machtposition sichern sollte".
So the equivalent rank of Reichminister of Bormann as Leiter der Parteikanzlei give him a dual upper position :
- in staate over the Staatssek. Klopfer
- in NSDAP over the Befehlsleiter Klopfer
Georges
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
So you can write :
Leiter der Partei-Kanlzei (with status of Reichsminister) Reichsleiter Bormann....
Leiter der Partei-Kanlzei (with status of Reichsminister) Reichsleiter Bormann....
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
Thanks again, Georges!
Interesting with Klopfer:
Which is this bio?
Regards
Halfdan S.
Interesting with Klopfer:
Georges JEROME wrote:"Am 21. November 1942 ernannte ihn Hitler (zusammen mit Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger) zum Staatssekretär in der Reichskanzlei, wo er als Abgesandter Bormanns dessen Machtposition sichern sollte".
Which is this bio?
Regards
Halfdan S.
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
on german wiki.
I red too the bio of Kritzinger which confirm they were appointed at the same time in 1942. Wiki + testimony from 1947 (Ifz-muenchen.de)
I red too the bio of Kritzinger which confirm they were appointed at the same time in 1942. Wiki + testimony from 1947 (Ifz-muenchen.de)
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Re: Reichsminister Bormann?!
Thx, Georges.
To summarize it seems that Bormann didn't hold the title "Reichsminister". Hitler himself didn't seem to call him Reichsminister (see the numerous times that AH called on his "Leiter der Partei-Kanzlei" in "Führer-Erlasse 1939-1945") - where as he called others Reichsminister, f.ex. Goebbels etc.
Yet, Bormann was equal in rank to a Reichsminister - and even had a Staatssekretär as his deputy in state matters: Klopfer, who was organizational placed in the Reichskanzlei.
Regards
Halfdan S.
To summarize it seems that Bormann didn't hold the title "Reichsminister". Hitler himself didn't seem to call him Reichsminister (see the numerous times that AH called on his "Leiter der Partei-Kanzlei" in "Führer-Erlasse 1939-1945") - where as he called others Reichsminister, f.ex. Goebbels etc.
Yet, Bormann was equal in rank to a Reichsminister - and even had a Staatssekretär as his deputy in state matters: Klopfer, who was organizational placed in the Reichskanzlei.
Regards
Halfdan S.