Martin Bormann died in 1959?

[Petterson]

A newspaper in Paraguay reported in 1993 that Martin Bormann had lived in that country for three years, had died in Asuncion on February 15, 1959, and was buried in a nearby town. A cause of death was a gastric cancer.

Is this theory believable?

Interesting that Bormann would had ailment in his stomach. Did Himmler had also stomach cramps? And Hitler. According to David Irving they had so called guilt cramps.

[Orok]

I won't trust either some Paraguay tabloid or David Irving. Besides, this topic has been discussed god knows how many times in this forum. Please kindly do a forum research to find your answer.

Best Regards!

[Michael Miller]

I think the case on Bormann has been closed thanks to DNA testing. Here's what I have:

* The Amtsgericht in Berchtesgaden declared Bormann legally dead on 10.03.1954, but he was long reputed to have escaped from Berlin to embark on a new life in South America. One of two skeletons unearthed in the Ulap Fairgrounds near the Reichstag building in West Berlin on 07./08.12.1972, was determined by a West German forensic expert using dental records to almost certainly be his. He was officially pronounced dead by a West German court in 04.1973. In 1998, however, a DNA examination was conducted by Wolfgang Eisenmenger, Professor of Forensic Science at München University working on behalf of the Justice Ministry in Frankfurt am Main. Using Bormann’s dental, medical, and fingerprint records, as well as blood from Bormann’s children for the DNA match, Eisenmenger was able to conclude that the skeleton was in fact that of Martin Bormann. He further determined the cause of death to be self inflicted poisoning. The other skeleton found was determined to be that of Hitler’s doctor, SS-Obersturmbannführer Dr. med. Ludwig Stumpfegger. Bormann’s remains were cremated and scattered over the Baltic Sea on 16.08.1999.


Best wishes,
~ Mike

[Roderick]

I believe that Herr Bormann died in May 2, 1945 and his skeleton was found in December, 1972.
The evidences are in http://www.anesi.com/east/bormann.htm

Roderick

[1812]

I agree that Bormann killed himself in 1945. There is no other explanation for the body they found.

[Locke]

Try these links:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=40911&highlight=martin+bormann
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=35952&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=martin+bormann&start=0

Regards,
Polona

[Simon Gunson]

Dear Petterson, you did not ask a silly question in my view. Michael Miller is factually correct in his entry that a skeleton recovered from 59 Invalidenstrasse in December 1972, was subsequently DNA tested about 1998 and compared with Martin Borman Jr to prove that the skeleton was his father ... But that is just half the story.

The skull when unearthed was caked in red volcanic soil which matched soil found in Paraguay suggesting Bormann had first been buried in Paraguay, unearthed and then reburied in Berlin. Both the Bormann family and German government refused requests to have the soil tested and the skeleton was cremated in great secrecy.

Hitler's dentist Dr Hugo Blaschke reconstructed both Bormann, Gobbels and Hitler's dental records for the Allies in 1945. Bormann's skull had about eight fillings not performed before May 1945. It had an upper right 3rd molar crown not present in 1945 and a lower window crown bridge from lower right to lower left lateral incissor inclusive. During the war Blaschke had performed a crown on Bormann's U/left cent incissor which in the 1972 skeleton was replaced by three element bridge. There were also at least three teeth L/L 1st molar U/L bicuspid and U/L 2nd Bicuspid
missing with bone growth over their sockets which had been present before the breakout on 2 May 1945.

There were also four conflicting versions of Bormann's fate on 2 May 1945 from Kempka, Diers, Axmann and Tiburtius.

These are known facts which conflict with the accepted explanation that DNA testing has solved Bormann's fate. I hope this answers your questions ?

[Ritter von der Kreuz]

[quote="Simon Gunson"]
The skull when unearthed was caked in red volcanic soil which matched soil found in Paraguay suggesting Bormann had first been buried in Paraguay, unearthed and then reburied in Berlin. Both the Bormann family and German government refused requests to have the soil tested and the skeleton was cremated in great secrecy.

Hitler's dentist Dr Hugo Blaschke reconstructed both Bormann, Gobbels and Hitler's dental records for the Allies in 1945. Bormann's skull had about eight fillings not performed before May 1945. It had an upper right 3rd molar crown not present in 1945 and a lower window crown bridge from lower right to lower left lateral incissor inclusive. During the war Blaschke had performed a crown on Bormann's U/left cent incissor which in the 1972 skeleton was replaced by three element bridge. There were also at least three teeth L/L 1st molar U/L bicuspid and U/L 2nd Bicuspid
missing with bone growth over their sockets which had been present before the breakout on 2 May 1945.
quote]

A wonderfully detailed account of this can be found in the book "The Murder of Adolf Hitler" (the author escapes my memory immediately). I believe based on the evidence that Bormann did indeed die in Paraguay and for whatever reason was reburied in Berlin.

Of further interest in the afore mentioned book is evidence that Eva Braun may possibly not have died in the bunker, but let me not start a new thread and argument!

[Simon Gunson]

If you read the book "Bormann the man who manipulated Hitler" by Hans Jochen Lange (one of Gobbels WW2 staff) it has photos of the skull and the red soil which encrusted it.

"The Berlin Bunker" by James P O'Donnell may have another similar photo.

The West German Government and the Bormann family refused all permission to study the soil. His skeleton was hastily cremated and the ashes spread in the baltic in great secrecy to prevent all further investigations.

At the time there were protests in many newspapers wanting to know more about the red soil. These included:

The News Letter (Belfast, Northern Ireland); 5/5/1998

The Scotsman (Edinburgh, Scotland); 8/30/1999

The Birmingham Post (England); 5/11/1998

One reason why doubt remains is the amount of conflicting stories about his "alleged" escape on the night of 1/2 May 1945.

Hitler's chuaffeur Kempka said they went through thunderground railway tunnel beneath the river Spree to the freidrichstrasse station where they emerged and met up with a tank unit and near Zeigelstrasse the armoured car which Martin Bormann was allegedly sheltering beside exploded. Kempka said he saw Bormann on fire and fall down dead.

The problem with this story which Axmann partly agreed with up to the exploding armoured car is that neither Axmann nor Kempka could have passed through the underground railway tunnel because the SS flooded it to stop the Soviets on 23 April 1945.

Artur Axmann said he found Bormann lying dead on his back several blocks away on a bridge near Lehrter S-Bahn (rail station) with no injuries and his face bathed in moonlight. Unfortunately there was almost no moon that night as it was 13 days past the full moon and the highest the moon reached before dawn was 18 degrees above the horizon. It was a very thin crescent and unable to bathe anybody's face in moonlight.

Axmann also said he was captured by russian soldiers between Ziegel strasse and Lehrter S-Bahn. Axmann said that although he was in a senior SS Hitlerjugend uniform they just let him walk away, whilst Hans Baur who followed the same route complained Soviet snipers shot at anything that moved. Hitlers pilot Hans Baur was shot quite badly in fact.

Both accounts also conflict with the account of the tank commander corporal George Diers Pz Abt 503 who says his panzer carried Bormann on it's tail and did not explode at all, but rather his passengers were shot off the rear by small arms fire.

Diers said his King Tiger in company with other panzers and fleeing VIPs was shot up by small arms fire near Ziegel Strasse. Diers related that someone jumped up to his turret and advised him to change direction westward.

When Diers asked what happened to three passengers aboard his tank previously which included Bormann, the individual giving instructions said they were "ripped apart" and shot to pieces by shooting from Ziegel Strasse. Unfortunately the Skeleton later proved by DNA testing to be bormann's had no bones fractured by bullets.

Another problem with Diers' account is that he says the party including Bormann Kempka and Axmann travelled with his tanks from the Fuhrer bunker and not underground.

Yet another source whom I forget at the moment said Bormann was inside the "tank" which exploded. Some say tank, others say armoured car etc.

Paul Manning wrote a book in which he cited two of Hitler's dental assistants to Dr Blaschke who said that two Bormann look alikes were removed from concentration camps and given identical dentistry to Bormann's and accompanied the break out party. Thus the confusion was planned in advance by Bormann.

Also a Ju-52 left Berlin's Brandenburg gates on 29 April 1945 from the same runway used by Hanna Reitsch and ritter von Greim earlier. Col Niklaus von Below is known to have flown out on 29 April 1945 and Hitler is known to have ordered Bormann to escape as executor of his last will.

During the Cold War the CIA needed Stalin to believe Bormann had died in Berlin. The Soviets were looking for an excuse to accuse the west of aiding Bormann's flight. The Soviets knew that Himmler was wheeling and dealing with the western allies before Hitler's death.

If you follow the railway line west or left from the Freidrichstrasse bridge (Weidendamm Bridge) to the next railway station, that is roughly the route claimed by Baur and Axmann

[DrG]

Artur Axmann said he found Bormann lying dead on his back several blocks away on a bridge near Lehrter S-Bahn (rail station) with no injuries and his face bathed in moonlight. Unfortunately there was almost no moon that night as it was 13 days past the full moon and the highest the moon reached before dawn was 18 degrees above the horizon. It was a very thin crescent and unable to bathe anybody's face in moonlight.

In this page: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html you can calculate the moon phase for every place of the world in every date. For Berlin (52°31'N 13°24'E, GMT+1) on 2 May 1945, the Moon was: "waning gibbous with 78% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.", certainly not a thin crescent.
Moonrise 23:48 on preceding day (1 May)
Moon transit 03:44
Moonset 07:38
(Borman allegedly died on 2 May 1945 between 1:30 AM and 2:30 AM).
About the altitude of the Moon, this page: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.html gives a highest number of only 13.9 degrees (13°54') at 3:40-3:50 AM.
Thus it seems that the Moon was more illuminated, but, on the other hand, less high on the horizon than in Simon's source.

Just a couple of links with anti-conspiracy opinions:
animated map of Bormann's escape route: http://www.anesi.com/east/bormapa.htm.
summary about the fate of Bormann written by David Irving, who, at least this time, agrees with most of the historians and explains why: http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History_04/Buhr100304.html.

[Karl]

Incredible.

It’s like those people who are still having problems believing in the lunar landings.

Why the hell would ‘certain’ people bring back Bormann’s body?

Sorry, I think some of you are looking for things that are not anywhere in the building, let alone the neighborhood.

No doubt He died in Berlin in May ’45.

[xcalibur]

If you read the book "Bormann the man who manipulated Hitler" by Hans Jochen Lange (one of Gobbels WW2 staff) it has photos of the skull and the red soil which encrusted it.

"The Berlin Bunker" by James P O'Donnell may have another similar photo.

The West German Government and the Bormann family refused all permission to study the soil. His skeleton was hastily cremated and the ashes spread in the baltic in great secrecy to prevent all further investigations.

At the time there were protests in many newspapers wanting to know more about the red soil. These included:

The News Letter (Belfast, Northern Ireland); 5/5/1998

The Scotsman (Edinburgh, Scotland); 8/30/1999

The Birmingham Post (England); 5/11/1998

One reason why doubt remains is the amount of conflicting stories about his "alleged" escape on the night of 1/2 May 1945.

Hitler's chuaffeur Kempka said they went through thunderground railway tunnel beneath the river Spree to the freidrichstrasse station where they emerged and met up with a tank unit and near Zeigelstrasse the armoured car which Martin Bormann was allegedly sheltering beside exploded. Kempka said he saw Bormann on fire and fall down dead.

The problem with this story which Axmann partly agreed with up to the exploding armoured car is that neither Axmann nor Kempka could have passed through the underground railway tunnel because the SS flooded it to stop the Soviets on 23 April 1945.

Artur Axmann said he found Bormann lying dead on his back several blocks away on a bridge near Lehrter S-Bahn (rail station) with no injuries and his face bathed in moonlight. Unfortunately there was almost no moon that night as it was 13 days past the full moon and the highest the moon reached before dawn was 18 degrees above the horizon. It was a very thin crescent and unable to bathe anybody's face in moonlight.

Axmann also said he was captured by russian soldiers between Ziegel strasse and Lehrter S-Bahn. Axmann said that although he was in a senior SS Hitlerjugend uniform they just let him walk away, whilst Hans Baur who followed the same route complained Soviet snipers shot at anything that moved. Hitlers pilot Hans Baur was shot quite badly in fact.

Both accounts also conflict with the account of the tank commander corporal George Diers Pz Abt 503 who says his panzer carried Bormann on it's tail and did not explode at all, but rather his passengers were shot off the rear by small arms fire.

Diers said his King Tiger in company with other panzers and fleeing VIPs was shot up by small arms fire near Ziegel Strasse. Diers related that someone jumped up to his turret and advised him to change direction westward.

When Diers asked what happened to three passengers aboard his tank previously which included Bormann, the individual giving instructions said they were "ripped apart" and shot to pieces by shooting from Ziegel Strasse. Unfortunately the Skeleton later proved by DNA testing to be bormann's had no bones fractured by bullets.

Another problem with Diers' account is that he says the party including Bormann Kempka and Axmann travelled with his tanks from the Fuhrer bunker and not underground.

Yet another source whom I forget at the moment said Bormann was inside the "tank" which exploded. Some say tank, others say armoured car etc.

Paul Manning wrote a book in which he cited two of Hitler's dental assistants to Dr Blaschke who said that two Bormann look alikes were removed from concentration camps and given identical dentistry to Bormann's and accompanied the break out party. Thus the confusion was planned in advance by Bormann.

Also a Ju-52 left Berlin's Brandenburg gates on 29 April 1945 from the same runway used by Hanna Reitsch and ritter von Greim earlier. Col Niklaus von Below is known to have flown out on 29 April 1945 and Hitler is known to have ordered Bormann to escape as executor of his last will.

During the Cold War the CIA needed Stalin to believe Bormann had died in Berlin. The Soviets were looking for an excuse to accuse the west of aiding Bormann's flight. The Soviets knew that Himmler was wheeling and dealing with the western allies before Hitler's death.

If you follow the railway line west or left from the Freidrichstrasse bridge (Weidendamm Bridge) to the next railway station, that is roughly the route claimed by Baur and Axmann

1) The soil point is moot if no analysis was done. For any author to say that the soil is consistent with Paraguayan red volcanic soil is irresponsible. The only thing that can be reliably said about it without analysis is that it was red.

2) The phrase "hastily cremated" is irresponsible as well. What's the point of hanging on to a skeleton no one wants? Is anyone willing to offer any proof that Bormann's skeleton was cremated any differently from any other skeleton after an identification has been made? Or, as is more likely, the phrase is intended to add a sinister tone to something probably quite unremarkable.

3) "The Soviets knew that Himmler was wheeling and dealing with the western allies before Hitler's death." So what? Hitler knew, the Soviets knew, and so did the rest of the world as this was widely reported in the press on April 28, 1945, two days before Hitler's death.

[Petterson]

Now I tell something more about that news on Bormann published in 1993. According to news Bormann lived and died in a town Hohenau. That Wikipedia link does not mention Bormann.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenau,_Paraguay
The news mentioned a report made by Paraguayn Ministry of Interior in 1961.

[Marcus Wendel]

For this is as believable as the Hitler escape theory discussed at viewtopic.php?f=46&t=173047

/Marcus

[Brad Wesley]

I'd just like to add as an FYI that I picked up an 40 year old copy of Reinhard Gehlen's book for a dollar and was surprised to find in it a statement that he believed that Bormann was a Soviet Spy and was living in Russia.