Did Hitler kill anyone?

[keith A]

I can't believe I am buying into this discussion again but it is fun . Having his guards kill the dog sounds like the man.

Might I again reinforce the point for others that believe that psychopathic maladjusted individuals thrive in wartime - especially in the military. WW1 and WW2 extremists rose to the surface every time there was discord. As a Brit I would argue that many in the SAS suffered when required to return to civilian life and later, in the 1970s, faced with an ineffectual Conservative government and a muddleheaded opposition, these resurfaced in Britain.

Hitler was a barrack-room lawyer who led or was led by others. The Wehrmacht convinced him he could win without himself suffering harm, the SS reinforced the belief he was invulnerable...Emperor without clothes. Others, Himmler etc. were politicians without conscience. Sadly anti-antisemitism, a lack of discipline and poor logistics made the German Army a plague that activated every latent disease in Europe.

Hitler wasn't a killer. There's no evidence other than his unit was present in a few actions.Most soldiers aren't. They shoot and duck, advance and retreat. Psychos and Special Forces claim kills. Both with no real evidence apart from a tattoo and a bit of homoerotic arm wrestling. Often they are composed of men with poor discipline but a lot of testosterone. Bill Slim believed his soldiers did everything commandos did and more. Difficult to argue. Special Forces look good but their actual impact is less easy to quantify. The Brandenburg commandos do appear to have an impact in Russia but the SAS/SBS were irritating rather than influential.

Adolf as murdererr by words - yes. Adolf as hero....seriously? Putting on a uniform does not automatically make you a patriot, or a hero. In August 1914 everyone believed the war would be won by Christmas 1914 and that the German Empire would repeat their successes of 1864-71. Did Hitler avoid enlisting because he expected he was backing a winning horse?

Fascinating ;0

[keith A]

..sorry I mean't he dodged service in the Austrian Army to choose to enlist in the German Army in 1914....

[James Paul]

..sorry I mean't he dodged service in the Austrian Army to choose to enlist in the German Army in 1914....

That's because Hitler didn't want to serve for the Austro-Hungarian Empire because of its mixture of races.

In Mein Kampf he wrote: "I was repelled by the conglomeration of races which the capital showed me, repelled by this whole mixture of Czechs, Poles, Hungarians, Ruthenians, Serbs, and Croats, and everywhere, the eternal mushroom of humanity-Jews and more Jews."

[ChristopherPerrien]

Hitler was a barrack-room lawyer who led or was led by others.

Wander off Keith, you have no clue

[michael mills]

Once again we are being presented with the fictitious contrast between Hitler the war hero and Hitler the coward skulking in the rear.

The fact is that Hitler never at any time claimed to have been a "hero", to have been braver than the average German soldier. He always presented himself as an ordinary, humble soldier, no better than the rest of the men in his unit.

The most probable reason why Hitler was so eager to enlist in August 1914 was that his participation in the war gave him a purpose in his hitherto somewhat aimless life, and his membership of a unit gave him the social connections that he had been lacking, rescuing him from his solitary existence. I doubt that he was counting on a short war; all the evidence suggests that he wanted to stay in the army for as long as possible.

[keith A]

Christopher you are a clown...if you haven't an argument then you should hold your breath, and perhaps take your fingers out of your trousers....like your mum always tells you.

Michael, I don't think I said he was a coward (he remained at the front for longer than many others in his regiment) but he was certainly an opportunist....and careful.

James: The comments on the racial mix of AH units is valid but post-war and possibly a self-justification, but that's just me I can't really admire the man - as so many on this discussion do. I am not a fan or an apologist of Hitler, just someone that finds it remarkable that he was able to steer Germany towards destruction with so little of what could be called sophisticated intelligence. There were many Jews in the German Army, including officers who readily advance his case for an astonishing amount of medals. Anti-antisemitism was common as you know in all armies at the time, especially in the German (Harder and Hirschfeld), AH and French (Dreyfus). The AH was more tolerant of religion but less of social status.

His desire to stay in the army may be linked to his desire to stay with the HQ section of his regiment. As you say he was a man unable to engage with what might be termed normal society and the war validated his existence. Maybe that's why he needed to start another one? If he thought the war would last, after the evidence of the 19th century European conflicts, then he was either a prophet or delusional.... in the end he was both

[ChristopherPerrien]

Christopher you are a clown...if you haven't an argument then you should hold your breath, and perhaps take your fingers out of your trousers....like your mum always tells you.

The more you talk the more, it is evident you have nothing to bring to this topic other than personal opinion and display a total lack of knowledge of even the basics, of both Hitler , and Germany in WWI and interwar and onto WWII. Your trolling attitude is such as well. Why don't you post some sources, some info backed by actual sources, or display some reasonable knowledge of the same.
I gather you might have read some drivel such as Hitler:the Psychopathic god. But obviously no such thing as Evans and his 3 volume work. Not Kershaw or Irving or even simple junk like Shirer.
Mein Kampf? Naw , sorry you would have to have some knowledge of German history and the political times of Germany post-WWI to know the names in it. So yea with such statements as the one above and the one before it, you look to be merely a troll looking for a flame-war. This is not a forum to do so now, it might have been 10 years ago at times, and I have seen more than 50 of you , and they aren't here now, I am. So get academic and quit with just the, "I hate Hitler, he was the devil, etc.etc.". Yea , yea , BFD, make some sourced based arguments, bring something to the discussion other than opinions.

I won't bother with what to say about, the drifting off into homoerotic weirdness denigrating all special forces while going on and on about Hitler being a barrack room lawyer. That hinted towards you are simply not worth further discussion. Hence my earlier statement. But I'll do me a favor and go unwatch here, this topic died out long ago in 2003 I helped kill it or so I thought. No one could bring anything to the table then. Only though the magic of necro did it surface again.

[fwilliam]

Chris;

I thought you reserved yourself for Sully's Port.

Uncle Adolph's mindset? No way the guards killed Blondi without Der Fueher's permission. Perhaps 'Dolph merely privded the cyanide capsules and had the men kill Blondi, Hitler truly loved that dog.

Bill

[Oscarruben]

ROHEM and talk about homosexuality is somewhat fanciful. I do not remember someone said to have slept and sexually related to it. Hitler had him killed because of pressure from Heads of Whermacht is very likely because it was dangerous for both HITLER, the Whermacht and Germany. Moreover HITLER was a brave man but that does not like.
Traductor de Google para empresas:Google Translator ToolkitTraductor de sitios webGlobal Market Finder

[James Paul]

James: The comments on the racial mix of AH units is valid but post-war and possibly a self-justification, but that's just me I can't really admire the man - as so many on this discussion do. I am not a fan or an apologist of Hitler, just someone that finds it remarkable that he was able to steer Germany towards destruction with so little of what could be called sophisticated intelligence. There were many Jews in the German Army, including officers who readily advance his case for an astonishing amount of medals. Anti-antisemitism was common as you know in all armies at the time, especially in the German (Harder and Hirschfeld), AH and French (Dreyfus). The AH was more tolerant of religion but less of social status.

His desire to stay in the army may be linked to his desire to stay with the HQ section of his regiment. As you say he was a man unable to engage with what might be termed normal society and the war validated his existence. Maybe that's why he needed to start another one? If he thought the war would last, after the evidence of the 19th century European conflicts, then he was either a prophet or delusional.... in the end he was both

I don't see anyone in this discussion posting anything that could be described as admiring Hitler. Although the exact definition of intelligence is subjective, I don't think many people would disagree in saying that Hitler was highly intelligent. How many people like him come about? Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon, etc, they are one-offs. Hitler had to have something about him to have literally millions upon millions of people follow him, be willing to die for him and to fight for him to the bitter end. It was only after the defeat at Stalingrad that the 'Hitler myth' started to become fully exposed. Hitler's greatest gift was public speaking, it was the major tool that got so many people behind him. Mind you, his success should not only be on his merits alone, the propaganda genius Goebbels and other highly intelligent Nazis also played their part in Hitler's rise to power and the earlier successes of the Third Reich. I remember reading in Joachim Fest's biography 'Hitler' that had he died before the war and the extermination of the Jews and others, despite the open anti-semitism of the Third Reich, in 1938 that 'few would hesitate to name him as one of the greatest statesmen of Germany.' I've heard this of many other historians and writers of the Third Reich. A former member of the Hitler Youth, Alfons Heck, also mentioned this in his book and also in the documentary 'The Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler'.

It's absurd to think that people 'admire' Hitler when pointing out some things that could be perceived as positive, such as his charismatic speaking skills, his political cunning of other politicians and parties, etc. If you haven't already, I suggest you read Ian Kershaw's book The "Hitler Myth": Image and Reality in the Third Reich.

There were indeed many Jews in the German army during WW1, including Hugo Gutmann who recommended Hitler's award of the Iron Cross.

Hitler wanted to stay in the army because he finally found himself belonging to somewhere, society after the war was alien to him. Hitler did not want another world war. Hitler considered himself a prophet e.g his Reichstag speech of January 1939. Many of Hitler's ambitions were delusional, which politician and leader doesn't have such thoughts?

[ChristopherPerrien]

Chris;

I thought you reserved yourself for Sully's Port.
Uncle Adolph's mindset? No way the guards killed Blondi without Der Fueher's permission. Perhaps 'Dolph merely privded the cyanide capsules and had the men kill Blondi, Hitler truly loved that dog.
Bill

Hifwilliam, (IDK who you are over in tullyland)

Actually , I went to Sully Port from here, Though I had been reading over there for several years(before it was a forum, so to speak, might have been when this place was still FeldGrau, been a while ). Never commented because there were primarily authors and really hard core historians over there, so I did not have much to bring to that table.


ANyway, In one of those books "The Last days of Hitler" or something or the other , and mentioned in passing in several other books written by Fuehrerbunker witnesses and survivors. It is mentioned that Blondi was killed by SS Guards the day (or perhap 2 in actual hours) before Hitler committed suicide. I am certain, given the multiple accounts, that is what happened to Hitler's dog.

I'll go unwatch again, just wanted to put that one piece of the puzzle here correctly, and answer about my interest over in Combined Fleet.

Chris

[ChristopherPerrien]

Chris;

I thought you reserved yourself for Sully's Port.
Uncle Adolph's mindset? No way the guards killed Blondi without Der Fueher's permission. Perhaps 'Dolph merely privded the cyanide capsules and had the men kill Blondi, Hitler truly loved that dog.
Bill

Hifwilliam, (IDK who you are over in tullyland)

Actually , I went to Tully's Port from here, Though I had been reading over there for several years(before it was a forum, so to speak, might have been when this place was still FeldGrau, been a while ). Never commented because there were primarily authors and really hard core historians over there, so I did not have much to bring to that table.


ANyway, In one of those books "The Last days of Hitler" or something or the other , and mentioned in passing in several other books written by Fuehrerbunker witnesses and survivors. It is mentioned that Blondi was killed by SS Guards the day (or perhap 2 in actual hours) before Hitler committed suicide. I am certain, given the multiple accounts, that is what happened to Hitler's dog.

I'll go unwatch again, just wanted to put that one piece of the puzzle here correctly, and answer about my interest over in Combined Fleet.

Chris

[Wordsworth]

Multiple sources regarding Blondi state that Hitler, fearing that Himmler's cyanide capsules were fake, decided to have one tested on his dog. Fritz Tornow, the dog handler, pulled her mouth open, then held it shut while the dog ingested the capsule whereupon the poor thing fell over dead.

Now, I've read conflicting accounts about whether Hitler was there or not when it happened. That he turned away when Blondi died. Some say he walked away before it happened. I can't say which is correct.

Tornow then later shot Blondi's puppies and the other dogs (Eva's and his own).

So, yes, Hitler had Blondi killed, but it doesn't seem he killed her himself and, in fact, probably felt that it was better she die now then be brutalized at the hands of the Soviets.

[sandeepmukherjee196]

Multiple sources regarding Blondi state that Hitler, fearing that Himmler's cyanide capsules were fake, decided to have one tested on his dog. Fritz Tornow, the dog handler, pulled her mouth open, then held it shut while the dog ingested the capsule whereupon the poor thing fell over dead.

Now, I've read conflicting accounts about whether Hitler was there or not when it happened. That he turned away when Blondi died. Some say he walked away before it happened. I can't say which is correct.

Tornow then later shot Blondi's puppies and the other dogs (Eva's and his own).

So, yes, Hitler had Blondi killed, but it doesn't seem he killed her himself and, in fact, probably felt that it was better she die now then be brutalized at the hands of the Soviets.

This version is correct. Tornow went crazy with shock and remorse after the dog and puppy killing spree. He had to be put in a strait jacket by the FBK guards.

Hitler's motives for putting Blondi and the other dogs to sleep were part pragmatic and part nihilistic. The world was coming to an end right there in Berlin as per his paradigm.

He could work up a vicious temper and could be an unforgiving man given the right provocation. He had Rommel done in inspite of the somewhat sentimental bond they shared. When he got into that kinda mood he was a potential killer.

I don't honestly know whether he ever killed anyone in his early life. But later. . after coming to power. ...no.

Cheers
Sandeep

[georgica]

Hitler did not have to kill anyone because his officers did it for him. Not loyal to him= kapput.