Die Saar ist deutsch!
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Did all the political parties advocate the continued status quo, or just the left wing? While they came in 2nd and 3rd respectively at the last pre-totalitarian election, the mighty Wikipedia suggests that the only regions which didn't go to the NSDAP went with Zentrum, so I was wondering if the non-left-wing parties supported reunification or not.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Wikipedia is not reliable at all!|AXiN| wrote:the mighty Wikipedia...
Sorry not to stay on topic, but truly we must be careful with the information that the wikipedia shows.
one example:
Just compare the numbers of scuttle ships of the German Navy Fleet in scapa flow in 1919.... there are many many more.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
At the last elections to the Saargebeit's Landtag in 1932, the Zentrum polled 43%, the KPD 23%, the SPD 10% and the NSDAP 6%. It was one of the KPD's strongest areas. Basically the coal-miners voted KPD or SPD, while the middle-class and the rural population voted Zentrum. All three of these parties advocated a status quo vote in the plebiscite, which makes the 91% vote for anschluss all the more remarkable. It was a triumph for Goebbels in particular. It was a shock to the KPD and SPD, who were shown how weak their influence was even with their own voters in the face of the NSDAP's appeal to German racial solidarity.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Hundi: I am aware of the failings of Wikipedia - "mighty Wikipedia" was a joke.
Adam: Was it seen as a failure of the same scale within Zentrum as within the KPD and SPD? IIRC Zentrum votes were what got the NSDAP across the line in passing the Enabling Act, so they had a history of working with/being intimidated into working with the Nazis.
Adam: Was it seen as a failure of the same scale within Zentrum as within the KPD and SPD? IIRC Zentrum votes were what got the NSDAP across the line in passing the Enabling Act, so they had a history of working with/being intimidated into working with the Nazis.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
The Church advocated a status quo vote both directly and through the Zentrum, so it was a big rebuff for them as well in a heavily Catholic area - a foretaste of what was to happen in Austria in 1938.
Yes you are right that it was the capitulation of the Zentrum that gave Hitler the Reichstag votes he needed to pass the Enabling Act. Mgr Ludwig Kaas, who was Zentrum chairman and close to Cardinal Pacelli in Rome, bears a heavy responsibility for this, capitulation, which former Chancellor Bruning opposed.
Yes you are right that it was the capitulation of the Zentrum that gave Hitler the Reichstag votes he needed to pass the Enabling Act. Mgr Ludwig Kaas, who was Zentrum chairman and close to Cardinal Pacelli in Rome, bears a heavy responsibility for this, capitulation, which former Chancellor Bruning opposed.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
oh! ok, my mistake I didn't get it that was a joke, I apologyze|AXiN| wrote:Hundi: I am aware of the failings of Wikipedia - "mighty Wikipedia" was a joke.
/Hundi.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Sarcasm and the internet are always a troublesome combination, all the more so for non-english speakers.
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Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
There was a difference between the level of support for the Nazi Party at elections and support for individual issues put by the Nazi Party at plebiscites.
As far as I am aware, the Nazis never got enough electoral support in any German-populated territory (Germany, Austria, Danzig) in openly contested elections to change the consitution in their favour. (I think their highest electoral support was about 56% at Danzig, where a two-thirds majority was required to change the constitution). However, by banning other parties, as happened in Germany, Austria and Danzig, they were able to remove enough parliamentary opposition to achieve the necessary majorities to alter constitutions in their favour and install themselves unchallenged for ever.
Once in power, the Nazis never put their contrived constitutional legitimacy to an electorate anywhere. Instead they used referendums on specific subjects for which there was widespread support beyond the Nazi Party, in particular for anschluss in the Saarland, Austria and Sudetenland, all of which returned support above 90%. In the League of Nations managed plebiscite in the Saarland the result undoubtedly reflected public sentiment.
However, the dubious conduct of the Austrian and Sudetenland plebiscites places an unnecessary questionmark against the 98%+-in-favour results. (See the link above for an illustration of the distorted Austrian plebiscite paper and a description by Göring's brother of the irregular voting process).
The Saarland result of 91%-in-favour set the bar for later referenda exceptionally high and the Nazis therefore "massaged" results in Austria and the Sudetenland to show even higher approval levels. This was almost certainly unnecessary as majority popular sentiment very probably favoured Anschluss in both cases anyway.
As far as I am aware, the Nazis never got enough electoral support in any German-populated territory (Germany, Austria, Danzig) in openly contested elections to change the consitution in their favour. (I think their highest electoral support was about 56% at Danzig, where a two-thirds majority was required to change the constitution). However, by banning other parties, as happened in Germany, Austria and Danzig, they were able to remove enough parliamentary opposition to achieve the necessary majorities to alter constitutions in their favour and install themselves unchallenged for ever.
Once in power, the Nazis never put their contrived constitutional legitimacy to an electorate anywhere. Instead they used referendums on specific subjects for which there was widespread support beyond the Nazi Party, in particular for anschluss in the Saarland, Austria and Sudetenland, all of which returned support above 90%. In the League of Nations managed plebiscite in the Saarland the result undoubtedly reflected public sentiment.
However, the dubious conduct of the Austrian and Sudetenland plebiscites places an unnecessary questionmark against the 98%+-in-favour results. (See the link above for an illustration of the distorted Austrian plebiscite paper and a description by Göring's brother of the irregular voting process).
The Saarland result of 91%-in-favour set the bar for later referenda exceptionally high and the Nazis therefore "massaged" results in Austria and the Sudetenland to show even higher approval levels. This was almost certainly unnecessary as majority popular sentiment very probably favoured Anschluss in both cases anyway.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
The Nazi government never altered the Weimar Constitution, which remained in place until the Allies dissolved the German state by the Declaration of Berlin of 5 June 1945. The President, with the consent of the Reichstag, suspended some parts of the Constitution, and the government of course routinely ignored its provisions once they were firmly in power.
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Hello to all ; a little complement: The Plebiscite!
Source: The Third Reich - Documentary book on German Year 1935.
Cheers. Raúl M .
Source: The Third Reich - Documentary book on German Year 1935.
Cheers. Raúl M .
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- The ballot boxes were being brought to the counting at the Gasthof "Wartburg"
(night from 13 to 14.1.1935) - image025.jpg (33.64 KiB) Viewed 2531 times
- The ballot boxes were being brought to the counting at the Gasthof "Wartburg"
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- The counting of votes in the hall of the Wartburg
- image026.jpg (44.2 KiB) Viewed 2531 times
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Hello to all ; a little more: the Plebiscite!
Source: The Third Reich - Documentary book on German Year 1935.
Cheers. Raúl M .
Source: The Third Reich - Documentary book on German Year 1935.
Cheers. Raúl M .
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- Handover of the Saar region to
Germany by the tripartite committee (to the left the German Minister of the Interior, Dr.
Wilhelm Frick) - image029.jpg (26.07 KiB) Viewed 2469 times
- Handover of the Saar region to
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Hello to all ; a little more: Saargebiet 1935.
Source: https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/I ... jNvcP01ZZt
Cheers. Raúl M .
Source: https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/I ... jNvcP01ZZt
Cheers. Raúl M .
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- Hermann Göring (right) and Gauleiter Josef Bürckel visiting the Saarland
- image051.jpg (21.2 KiB) Viewed 2356 times
Re: Die Saar ist deutsch!
Hello to all ; a little complement: Foreign troops on the Saar.
Over the past week, international forces tasked with maintaining order in the Saar region during the January 13 vote have arrived at their destination.
Source: Fremde Truppen an der Saar. Zürcher Illustrierte. Band (Jahr): 11 (1935).
Cheers. Raúl M .
Over the past week, international forces tasked with maintaining order in the Saar region during the January 13 vote have arrived at their destination.
Source: Fremde Truppen an der Saar. Zürcher Illustrierte. Band (Jahr): 11 (1935).
Cheers. Raúl M .
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- English troops at the Calais train station during the crossing to the Saar. A company of French infantry honors them..................
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- The Dutch contingent is inspected in Rotterdam by the commander of the Dutch marines, van Dören, before his departure..............
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