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Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Discussions on every day life in the Weimar Republic, pre-anschluss Austria, Third Reich and the occupied territories.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby dragoner on 19 Jan 2009 22:40

Rothaut wrote: I also recall reading that the Sioux tribes were labeled "honorary Aryans" in 1934 or 1936 so that a German officer could marry his Sioux fiancee and have her live in Germany legally.


That must have been very much of note to the Americans because Whites and Native Americans could not marry until 1965, at least in California. I wonder if the Dakotas had similar laws?
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Rothaut on 20 Jan 2009 15:00

I have no idea on other state's laws, but my parents married in Nebraska in 1963 and there were no restrictions.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Bjørn from Norway on 20 Jan 2009 18:40

Hello!
Concerning AH and Karl May, he seemed to have been really devoted to those books. Might have been a middle aged mans effort to keep at least something of his youth alive.

Having read most of them, there is indeed no secret message included. More a obsession of the time, Zane Grey and so on.

B.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Peter H on 22 Jan 2009 08:01

Germans and Indians,Colin Gordon Calloway, Gerd Gmünden, Susanne Zantop,2002

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=69Y ... &ct=result
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Elf Friend on 19 Oct 2009 00:50

I'm quite interested in the connection between the German American Bund and Native Americans. Thanks for
Peter H wrote:Germans and Indians,Colin Gordon Calloway, Gerd Gmünden, Susanne Zantop,2002

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=69Y ... &ct=result


One side of my heritage is German and we have an adopted nephew who is German/American Indian and a member of the U.S. Army. This seems to beg the definition of Aryan. Curious
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby DHidalgo on 25 Jun 2010 02:17

David Downing in Sealing Their Fate (p33) makes the following reference to conquest of Slavic Russia:
"the German invasion of the Soviet Union...was undertaken with a view tothe permanent conquest of European Russia. The historical precedent that Hitler...had in mind was the United States, and the American taming of the 'savage' West. The Volga, Hitler said, would be Germany's Mississippi.
Like America's 'Red Indians,' the indigenous Slavs were considered sub-human....So what was to be done with them? There was ine big difference between the Native Americans and the Slavs - there were far too many of the latter to put in reservations. In Russia and Ukraine ethnic cleansing would be insufficient..."
Downing's references include Ian Kershaw's Hitler 1936-45:Nemesis and Helmut Heiber Goebbels
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby mihm on 13 Feb 2011 02:39

Hitler saw treatment the US government gave the native americans as a prime example of how a total race and culture of people could be wiped from this earth. The movement of the tribes onto the lands in Oklahoma where there was little for them to do for substinence, the massacres of total tribes by the US Cavalry, the sending them disease ladin blankets and tainted food and the total extiction of the buffalo were all parts of how the US tried to wipe indigenous people from the Americas. Electing Tecumseh Sherman to oversea the indian wars after his exploits of in the Civil War. As well as his predessesor Phil Sheridan who also harbored similiar feelings towards the indians and the way they should be treated. It is sad that the US Cavalry's had anything to do with how to exterminate the indians.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Vikki on 13 Feb 2011 05:59

Off-topic posts by murx and a now unnecessary reply were deleted by this Moderator. Murx, you've already received a warning from David Thompson, one of the Forum Adminstrators, at viewtopic.php?p=1528525#p1528525. Don't push it.

~Vikki
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Vikki on 13 Feb 2011 06:02

mihm, while we're at it, let's also see a source for this:
mihm wrote:Hitler saw treatment the US government gave the native americans as a prime example of how a total race and culture of people could be wiped from this earth.


~Vikki
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby LWD on 14 Feb 2011 13:30

As long as we're opening questions how about:
mihm wrote:... the massacres of total tribes by the US Cavalry, the sending them disease ladin blankets

HIstorically these can't be substantiated. Were these myths common at the time? Can you demostrate that they were?
and tainted food

I'm not sure I've seen this one before. I do know the quantities were not always what they should have been but again was this something that was believed by Hitler or many people at the time.
and the total extiction of the buffalo ....

The buffalo are not extinct and Hitler may even have seen some in his visit to the US.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby aues_ghueder on 15 Feb 2011 22:55

A strange subject which I was recently indirectly talking about at work. Most German speakers then (and a lot still now) were not able to separate Native Americans as a real people with a real history and all the romance of Karl Mays books for Youth and other fictional literary sources in English. In this sense perceptions of Native Americas are a blur of a lot of fantasy with a little reality. I image Hitler could have had a similar attitude especially if he read Karl May. A lot of German speakers today are taken aback when one tells them that the word Indian is no longer politically correct. You get the feeling that when you broach the subject, it's the first time they ever thought of Indians as a real ethnic group. In the 40s this kind of perception must have been much more extreme. Of course it even seems a bit strange to say Die Ureinwohner Amerikas instead of Indianer in normal conversation with people in German.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby gustav109 on 16 Feb 2011 05:18

Vikki wrote:mihm, while we're at it, let's also see a source for this:
mihm wrote:Hitler saw treatment the US government gave the native americans as a prime example of how a total race and culture of people could be wiped from this earth.


~Vikki


Vikki, hear, hear,

Before I do some research on the subject (with no guarantee of finding an answer) I find it incredible that people who have an interest in history are not more critical of baseless comments they read in books, without sources quoted.

Maybe off the subject but, many years ago TV is Australia featured an interview with a German frau (also living in Australia) who supposedly was the "secretary" of Goring (complete with group photo's, not featuring Goring), and who had met Hitler (or so she said). She sprouted the usual drivel associated with him (chewed the carpet when angry, beat his cat, any other baseless comment) that the interviewer soaked like a sponge.

Being suspicious I wrote to a (now unfairly pilloried) British historian who sent me an excellent reply letter (which I still have) where he listed Goring's wartime secretaries, Ashcan interrogation notes what Goring said of them and their history (an historical document in itself that I treasure). When I wrote to the offending television program (sending a copy of the letter), threatening to take them to a licensing authority for such drivel being purported to be fact, they said, in words to the effect, that they have to take at their word anyone that comes to them with a good story. This was my first lesson in never trusting what you see on television purported to be historical fact.

AH being roundly despised by all and sundry is, seemingly, credited with every calamnity ever to be experienced by mankind. Don't worry that Pol Pot, Stalin or other communist dictators killed more innocent souls than Hitler's regime ever did, or that every world power had gone to undeclared war (USA-Iraq, UK - Suez, Israel - Lebanon etc), or that any other crime that Hitler has been credited can find parallels throughout world history. Even so, that does not give writers/historians the right to publish just plain lies to sell a book or create some fact that did not exist in truth.

Sorry for getting off track but I find it frustrating when comments are based on incorrect information rather than established fact.

We only need to look at Jesse Owens to see the best example, an Athlete who blatantly lied about the Hitler handshake yet kept the myth going so that truth did not get in the way of a good story for his own benefit.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Cold Spring Child on 16 Feb 2011 14:12

I am astounded! 8O

The buffalo are not extinct and Hitler may even have seen some in his visit to the US.


I've studied the Third Reich for 15 years and have never heard any mention of Hitler visiting the US....has this fact somehow evaded me for all this time, or is this a fantasy of some sort? A source, please!

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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby LWD on 16 Feb 2011 14:37

Cold Spring Child wrote:I am astounded! 8O

The buffalo are not extinct and Hitler may even have seen some in his visit to the US.


I've studied the Third Reich for 15 years and have never heard any mention of Hitler visiting the US....has this fact somehow evaded me for all this time, or is this a fantasy of some sort? A source, please!

Stu

I apparently took a statement in this thread
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8099
on face value when I shouldn't have. I could try and weasle out by saying it wasn't Adolph I was talking about but won't.
Thanks for calling me on this one learning something you thought was true isn't is even better than learning something new.
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Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Postby Steve Wilcox on 16 Feb 2011 15:34

LWD wrote:As long as we're opening questions how about:
mihm wrote:... the massacres of total tribes by the US Cavalry, the sending them disease ladin blankets

HIstorically these can't be substantiated. Were these myths common at the time? Can you demostrate that they were?

I don't know if the US ever gave "disease ladin [sic] blankets" to Native Indians, but the British certainly did:

"On June 24, two Delawares, Turtle's Heart and Mamaltee, came to within hailing distance of the walls and tried to talk the British into giving up the fort. Alexander McKee went out to talk with them, and trader William Trent confided to his diary, "Out of our regard to them we gave them two Blankets and a Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect." That same month Levy, Trent and Company submitted an invoice for "Sundries got to replace in kind those which were taken from people in the Hospital to Convey the Smallpox to the Indians." Ecuyer certified it and General Gage approved it. Turtle's Heart evidently did not succumb to the disease - he appeared in councils later in the year - but smallpox ravaged Indian villages that spring and summer." Page 73 of The Scratch of a Pen: 1763 and the Transformation of North America by Colin G. Calloway.

The note (29) for the quote is on page 188. It's painfully long, but I'll type it out if anyone wishes to see it.
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