Decorations being taken away as German soldiers surrendered?

[BillHermann]

Well said, Larry indeed.

[trekker]

Here's an excerpt from an account of T.K. – a Slovene mobilized in the German army:
15.11.1944 his unit surrendered to Americans near the Maginot line. While about 20 of them were being taken to the rear German artillery opened fire and T.K. was wounded in his leg. He was bandaged and taken to the first-aid post by a jeep. After being questioned he was taken by an ambulance to the main dressing station. During the drive he was thoroughly searched by a medical orderly and taken away all that was glimmering: a watch, chainlet, money etc. »Those were their usual war trophies.«


Here's an excerpt from an account of J.B. – a Slovene mobilized in the German army:
One evening in August 1944 he and his Polish fellow left their unit in southern France. Next morning they were found by soldiers of Charles de Gaulle, mostly from Africa. They immediately took from prisoners all that was valuable, especially watches. If a ring was diffilcult to get off the prisoner risked to lose his finger. Americans liked decorations as souvenirs, sometimes they took a ring. British took everything from prisoners but most of that was given back upon release.

[Simon Orchard]

There's an interesting contrast here in how decorations were viewed by the allies in Norway after the surrender.

I have copies of the orders from the British specifically allowing the wearing of all military decorations (not political ones obviously) the only caveat being they had to be de-nazified, with one exception, the iron cross was specifically excluded and was not required to be de-nazified. At least, according to the original order, for the time being.

[trekker]

Here's another true story:

The German commanding officer demanded that he surrender to an officer. I think Captain Dubinski was that officer.
Carl Sigler (one of our cooks) and me took the first group of prisoners (about 35) back to the town. I counted cadence in German, (this was the extent of my knowledge of the German language).
We obtained plenty of souvenirs. I personally took, 3 pistols, 3 watches, an iron cross, a German Purple Heart, a Russian Front Service Medal, a German Good Conduct Medal, a set of binoculars, and fifty-five bucks Italian money.

source:
http://herkyshistory.com/Herkys%20History.pdf, p. 150

[ReinhardH]

What happened to the 35 prisoners after they were relieved of all of this hardware?

[Marcus]

An off-topic post by redcoat was removed, this thread is not about the numerous German war crimes, discussions on that topic belong in the Holocaust & War Crimes section.

/Marcus

[trekker]

British Lieutenant Colonel Peter Wilkinson was attached to 2 New Zealand division 1.5.1945 and arrived to Trst/Trieste 2.5.1945. In his book he described the following event:
»… I received an urgent message to go at once to the north end of the town where there was reported to be a confrontation between the Partisans and the New Zealanders over a battalion of Germans who had holed up in a barracks and were refusing to surrender to the Partisans. When I arrived I found both parties glowering at each other about fifty paces distant on opposite sides of the road. In an effort to sort things out, I suggested that if the Germans surrendered to the New Zealanders, the Partisans should be allowed the spoils of war in the shape of the prisoners' watches and cameras. This attempt at conciliation was scornfully rejected by the New Zealand company commander who said, »What do you think we want with a lot of f-ing Teds? All we want is their f-ing watches.« I do not know how the matter was resolved for I left them to it and returned to Freyberg's headquarters in Miramare.«

[Polynike]

I guess in the time honoured tradition...to the victor the spoils

[Halle]

This is an interesting thread , and it's changed my opinion of the subject to an extent . It's been pointed out that the average German soldier was just happy to be alive when captured , and I can see that . I've often felt it somehow " demeaned " allied soldiers to take decorations from POWs , but the picture of the British soldier on the first page , an MM recipient , obviously a brave man - somehow , that doesn't seem so bad . I suppose , as I wasn't there , I've no right to comment , but I still feel rather aggrieved on behalf of the German soldiers who had their hard won awards pinched by rear echelon soldiers - no logic to it , and theft of opponents goods has gone on for centurys .

As for the German soldier , by '44-'45 he was short of everything , and a tin of bully beef and a pair of socks were more valued than opponents decorations , if they were worn .

[sunbury2]

I have no sympathy at all for the German Soldiers. it was pure arrogance of the German Armed forces to wear their actual medals in combat.

Most countries wore medal ribbons which showed their bravery without having their tinware on display. The fact medals would be taken was well known from WW1. The German Armed Forces knew surrendering troops had their medals, watches etc stolen. Indeed I have seen a picture of German troops crossing No Mans Land with their watches and wallets in their hands already as they surrender to Australian troops.

This thread is just another the Germans are "victims" again. German troops looted, just as much as any other army.

[trekker]

This thread is just another the Germans are "victims" again. German troops looted, just as much as any other army.

In my opnion, this thread has nothing to do with Germans and the least with showing the Germans as victims. It simply reveals how the Allied soldiers approached their captured enemies, what was on their mind in those moments. As Larry wrote on 22 Mar 2013: »... relieving an enemy carrying a weapon of his "stuff" has been an age-old tradition until just recently. It was just 500 years ago that the fallen wounded were slaughtered on the battlefield and captives taken back to the victor's camp for torture. I mean, we've got to give mankind credit for making at least a little progress over the past half-millennium.« I think that while realizing that some progress has been made one shouldn't forget that much of the ancient behaviour has remained - not only with the enemy but also with OUR soldiers. (Saying that I don't say that all armies behave in the same way.)

As the accounts given show it was not about decorations taken away - it was about any personal belongings of value taken away. BillHermann reminded on 19 Feb 2013 that »The black market was thriving ...« and soldiers were engaged in it.

[history1]

[...] it was pure arrogance of the German Armed forces to wear their actual medals in combat.
[...]

You don´t mind to link at least 20 images which support your claim?
Or as 2nd possibillity to cite a German document where they state that a german soldier has to wear his medals DURING combat

[Harro]

[...] it was pure arrogance of the German Armed forces to wear their actual medals in combat.
[...]

You don´t mind to link at least 20 images which support your claim?
Or as 2nd possibillity to cite a German document where they state that a german soldier has to wear his medals DURING combat

He didn't claim they HAD to wear them, he just said they did. As for the images, are you disputing the fact that German soldiers wore their awards during combat?

[history1]

[...]As for the images, are you disputing the fact that German soldiers wore their awards during combat?

Not at all, I just don´t remember that I saw many photos were soldiers are wearing their medals during combat so that one can claim that that was pure arrogance. We don´t talk about officers and others in suply units or in the back of the front.

[Marcus]

Get back on topic. This thread is not for discussing who was worse or if this or that group were victims, just to discuss the taking of decorations from surrendering German soldiers.

/Marcus