Why did the Nazis choose to dabble in Occultism? Did it always have it's roots in German History and who were the chief exponents of it's choice as the Nazi Religion? Any books and Info anyone has would be helpful.
~Regards Schmauser
Third Reich Occultism
(click the covers)
Some books for you:
"Hitler and the Occult" by Ken Anderson
"The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology" by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke
"Spear of Destiny" by Trevor Ravenscroft
"The Secret King: Karl Maria Wiligut - Himmler's Lord of the Runes" by Karl Maria Wiligut, Michael Moynihan & Stephen Flowers
/Marcus
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Bret van Sant
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MVSNConsolegenerale
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RE: KKK
KKK is not an organisation which historically gets along with the Nazi's. The KKK is a racist Protestant organisation, and after Jews and Blacks the Papists came next.
As the Nazi party had many Catholic leaders, including Hitler, the KKK did not like them. Until only recently both the KKK and neo-nazi's hated each other. But out of need have bascially joined sides in recent days.
So Himmler would never have worn a KKK outfit.
As the Nazi party had many Catholic leaders, including Hitler, the KKK did not like them. Until only recently both the KKK and neo-nazi's hated each other. But out of need have bascially joined sides in recent days.
So Himmler would never have worn a KKK outfit.
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michael mills
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Did they? Hitler certainly never did. Hess was a bit weird, but his eccentricities basically were in the area of alternative medicine, eg magnetism, homeopathy etc, all good "New Age" stuff.Why did the Nazis choose to dabble in Occultism?
Himmler was certainly a proponent of a sort of Nordic mysticism, but that should not be confused with occultism, which indicates a belief in the supernatural and the paranormal. A belief in the superiority of the Nordic race, for example, does not entail a belief in supernatural beings, but rather is rooted in very materialistic biology.
In my opinion, all the authors who write about the putative role of occultism, magic, or similar phenomena in the Nazi movement are talking through their collective hats. They are probably just trying to make a buck out of a modern audience which is all too ready to believe in such things as astrology.
All the "New Age stuff" and other things alike can be of real service to humankind if studied, understood and applied scientifically by professional physicians and other specialists. The contempt for them and the basic refusal to even discuss them is the result of too much crooks and charlatans who had fooled the world for years, if not centuries, counting on the stupidity of the people.michael mills wrote:Hess was a bit weird, but his eccentricities basically were in the area of alternative medicine, eg magnetism, homeopathy etc, all good "New Age" stuff.
As for the "Nazi occultism" and the "Nazi Religion" and other things like these, I think they are too much publicized and given too much importance by people who don't have more important things to do.
The idea of National Socialism as a religion is wrong. Rituals are not necessarily connected to religions; they just act as a sort of "external trim" for a religion. The dogma/doctrine/ideology is the basis. From this point of view, while National Socialism was a secular movement with some ritual aspects, unsupported by a dogma and based only on the personality of Adolf Hitler, Soviet Communism was a movement born out of an utopian ideology and based on Church-like ideas and procedures(Stalin's theological education in early life must have had a definite influence on this).
http://pub11.ezboard.com/fskalmanmessag ... 1&stop=195
~Ovidius
re
They didn't. You can look no further than the semi-academic "studies" of Himmler. Thats about the only remotely "occult" nonsense that top party members indulged in. Even Hitler thought that some Himmler's ramblings were rubbish, he even laughed at the black pre-war SS uniform. Himmler basically kept his job because he was an organisation talent and a loyal party member, so Hitler let him off with his more "eccentric" views.
Tony
Tony
Questions, Questions
Ok guys, I have a few questions.
Is Occultism linked to paganism in any way? I believe that the nazis were pagans and that was their religion.
What is the meaning of Occultism and what does it do, "I'm just asking peoples opinions on this one".
and finally ... I'm sure most people link Occult practices with Satan & Devil-worshippers. So is that why it is associated with the Nazis, to make them appear even more evil?.
~Regards Schmauser
Is Occultism linked to paganism in any way? I believe that the nazis were pagans and that was their religion.
What is the meaning of Occultism and what does it do, "I'm just asking peoples opinions on this one".
and finally ... I'm sure most people link Occult practices with Satan & Devil-worshippers. So is that why it is associated with the Nazis, to make them appear even more evil?.
~Regards Schmauser
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michael mills
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The National Socialist Party neither promoted nor opposed any particular religion. There was no religion that Party members were expected to belong to, but neither were they prevented from practising any religion.Is Occultism linked to paganism in any way? I believe that the nazis were pagans and that was their religion.
The party did have a policy of encouraging its members to resign from the established churches, but that was not the same thing as requiring them to abandon any religious belief that they had. In Germany, all citizens were required to be registered with one of the established churches; the state then levied a tax on them (the "Kirchensteuer") which was paid to the church with which they were registered. A citizen had to right to resign from church membership, in which case the Kirchesteuer was not levied on him, but he lost the right to be married in church, or have a funeral and be buried in consecrated ground.
The National Socialist Party encouraged its members to exercise the legal option to resign from church membership, but did not require them to do so, and certainly did not impose atheism. Party-members who resigned from the church were known as "gottglaeubig" (believers in God), indicating that they were believers, ie not atheists like the Communists, but not adherents of one of the established churches.
The reason why the Party encouraged its members to resign their church membership was primarily to break the political power of the churches, rather than for any ideological purpose. The more people who resigned from the churches, the less tax revenue the churches would recieve, and hence the less their power.
Even so, many Party-members retained their church membership, and were not penalised for doing so. Even some of the staff in the concentration camps were full members of the Catholic and Lutheran churches.
Within the German nationalist movement as a whole there was a small group of fanatics that proposed the return to the pre-Christian Germanic religion (Wotan, Thor etc), given that Christianity was "foreign". However, this was a marginal group, and had no influence on the National Socialist Party. Hitler simply laughed at the proponents of neo-Paganism. He had no romantic ideas about the ancient Germans, and considered them to have been primitive barbarians compared with the Greeks and Romans.
In addition to Michael's post, "occult" means "hidden". So while Paganism referes to pre-Christian established religion, Occultism was outside the mainstream of any society. So a devil worshiper could have been a practitioner of the occult both in Pagan and in Christian times.
In many (most? what is Wednesday in Swedish?) Germanic languages Wednesday is named for Odin, or Wotan, the father of the old gods, but in German it was changed to "midweek" as, IIRC, a compromise with the Church. In Engish we can still celebrate the Sun, the Moon, War, the father of the gods, Thunder, Fertility and the Primevil Ooze, in that order, but the Germans had to replace the father of the gods, as it was closest to the Christian God.
Hope that clears up the "occult" question
Dan
In many (most? what is Wednesday in Swedish?) Germanic languages Wednesday is named for Odin, or Wotan, the father of the old gods, but in German it was changed to "midweek" as, IIRC, a compromise with the Church. In Engish we can still celebrate the Sun, the Moon, War, the father of the gods, Thunder, Fertility and the Primevil Ooze, in that order, but the Germans had to replace the father of the gods, as it was closest to the Christian God.
Hope that clears up the "occult" question
Dan
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Zapfenstreich
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Occultism
Most of the Third Reich hierarchy was not at all involved in the occult or mysticism. You guys were right in saying that that was all Himmler's schtick. He actually thought he was the reincarnation of King Heinrich. Hitler tolerated a lot from his cronies because of their loyalty to him and his to them. He said he couldn't understand Goering's passion for shooting small animals and that the only thing Himmler's archaeological digs proved was that the Germans' ancestors were squatting by a fire in front of a mud hut while the Asians were living in palaces.
The supposed involvement of the Third Reich government in the occult was just more WWII anti- Nazi propoganda and hype put out by the Allied intelligence services. Hell, the Brits were even making up stories, which they attributed to Nostradamus, predicting the specific defeat of Nazi Germany.
Z
The supposed involvement of the Third Reich government in the occult was just more WWII anti- Nazi propoganda and hype put out by the Allied intelligence services. Hell, the Brits were even making up stories, which they attributed to Nostradamus, predicting the specific defeat of Nazi Germany.
Z
Heinrich I
born c. 876
died July 2, 936, Memleben, Saxony [now in Germany]
also called Henry the Fowler, German Heinrich der Vogler
German king and founder of the Saxon dynasty (918–1024) who strengthened the East Frankish, or German, army, encouraged the growth of towns, brought Lotharingia (Lorraine) back under German control (925), and secured German borders against pagan incursions.
The son of Otto the Illustrious, the Liudolfing duke of Saxony, Henry became duke at his father's death (912). His first marriage, to Hatheburg, daughter of Erwin, count of Merseburg, was declared invalid because she had become a nun after her first husband's death. He married Matilda, daughter of Dietrich, count of Westphalia, in 909; their eldest son would rule as the Holy Roman emperor Otto I the Great (936–973).
Although at war (912–915) with Konrad I. (d. 918) of Franconia (German king, 903–918) over title to lands in Thuringia, Henry received Conrad's deathbed designation as heir to the throne. He was elected king of Germany (May 919) by nobles of Saxony and Franconia, two of the four most influential duchies; the other two important duchies, Swabia and Bavaria, did not recognize him as king.
Henry considered Germany a confederation of duchies rather than a nation. Having complete authority in Saxony and nominal sovereignty in Franconia, he sought to bring the duchies of Swabia and Bavaria into the confederation. After forcing the submission of Burchard, duke of Swabia (919), he allowed the duke to retain control over the civil administration of the duchy. On the basis of an election by Bavarian and East Frankish nobles (919), Arnulf, duke of Bavaria, also claimed the German throne. In 921, after two military campaigns, the king forced Arnulf to submit and relinquish his claim to the throne, though the duke retained complete internal control of Bavaria.
Henry defeated Giselbert, king of Lotharingia, in 925, and that region, which had become independent of Germany in 910, was brought back under German control. Giselbert, who was recognized as duke of Lotharingia, married the king's daughter Gerberga in 928.
When the Magyars, barbarian warriors from Hungary, invaded Germany in 924, Henry agreed to pay tribute to them and return a captured Magyar chief in exchange for a nine-year (924–933) cession of raids on German territory. During these years the king built fortified towns and trained the cavalry force he used to defeat various Slavic tribes; he conquered the Havelli at Brandenburg and the Daleminzi at Meissen in 928 and suppressed a rebellion in Bohemia in 929. The king refused to pay more tribute when the nine-year truce ended in 933. He used his seasoned cavalry to destroy the Magyars, who had resumed their raids, at Riade on March 15, 933, and ended their threat to the German countryside. The king's last campaign, an invasion of Denmark (934), added the territory of Schleswig to the German state.
The story that Henry received the surname Fowler because he was laying bird snares when informed of his election as king is probably a myth.
http://www.hfac.uh.edu/gbrown/philosoph ... ich-I.html
Last edited by Marcus on 27 Apr 2002, 18:37, edited 1 time in total.