German soldiers with english names?

[British Sapper]

I think the Germans viewed their fellow soldiers with Anglo-Celtic names the same way that we Americans viewed our General Eisenhower, Admiral Nimitz and others of German and Italian descent, especially if they had been born in Germany and their family had been present for at least a few generations, spoke German and/or the local dialect with no accent and acted German.

The japanese didn't fare so well.

[Harro]

There was a Luftwaffe officer that shared my last name who was named Eckhard Christian. The surname "Christian" originated from the Isle of Man.

Well, "Christian" is a very common German last name with no links to the Isle of Man. It gives 8443 hits in the German online phonebook.

[JustinYT]

You also have to remember that sometime very early in the war maybe 40-41 Hitler an the Nazi's put out a call that Volksdeutsche or all true Aryans should return home to the fatherland. So there were people of German background who answered that call an went back to Germany an fought.

[268363]

I don't believe any soldier serving in the Wehrmacht who had English sounding names would have been frowned upon or ostracised in any way . You have to remember that a huge number of foreigners served the Reich , some of whom served in units that were highly regarded .

[PF]

there was a German-Scottish family -surname of ROSS- related to the Ullstein Publishing family

[Sheldrake]

Back in 1975 on my first trip to Germany I visited a cemetery somewhere on the Western side of the Wall and was surprised to find a sort of walkway with row upon row of graves of officers (it wasn't the Invalidenfriedhof - I couldn't find that at the time). What surprised me was that the graves represented officers who had served in battles back to Napoleonic times and more than one had non-German sounding names. A number had British names including half a dozen named Campbell. Some of theses Campbells had served in the German army in the First World War (and earlier). I could only surmise that the family were probably career soldiers/mercenaries and had settled in a country that offered them pretty good employment prospects.

There were many mercenaries from the British isles who served in various European armies. Barry Lyndon has a plausible setting. The civil and religious wars of the C 17th and the Jabobite rebellions resulted in exiles from the British isles.

Mercenaries were not merely cannon fodder. Professional Scots soldiers were in demand as commanders. In one of Christopher Duffy's books he mentions an occasion when the Turks and Russians were negotiating some truce and the commanders on each side realised that they were both from Keith.

The Hapsburg Imperial Armies included Generals such as von Brown, O' Reilly and the Wallis's "Barons von Carrighmain".

Sir Joseph Murray was born in Tournai, Flanders, of Scottish descent and the son of a Dutch General. He rose to be Imperial chamberlain and in the 1730s succeeded to a Scottish baronetcy after the death of a cousin.

[Heimatschuss]

Hello,

Mercenaries were not merely cannon fodder. Professional Scots soldiers were in demand as commanders. In one of Christopher Duffy's books he mentions an occasion when the Turks and Russians were negotiating some truce and the commanders on each side realised that they were both from Keith.

this must refer to George Keith, the 10th Earl Marischal of Scotland and his brother James Keith:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Kei ... _Marischal [quite short bio in English]
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Kei ... _Marischal [lenghty bio in German]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Francis_Edward_Keith [concise bio in English]
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Keith [longer German version]

Though protestant they became partisans of the Stuarts and had to leave the country after the failed Jacobite uprising of 1715. They met again in the Ukraine in 1737 during the siege of the fortress Otshakov that controls the mouth of the Dnyepr river. By then James served as a general in the tsarina's army that besieged Otshakov, held by the Turks. When James was badly wounded George came from Spain where he resided to look after him.

Since 1747 both brothers were in Prussian service where they soon became close friends of Frederick the Great. George served for most of the time as gouvernor of the Prussian exclave County of Neuchatel/Neuenburg in Western Switzerland while James became a field marschal in the Prussian army and one of the closest advisers of Frederick the Great until his death in the battle of Hochkirch in 1758.

In several german towns there are streets called Keith-Straße that are named after them.

Sorry for immersing so much in history, I think we should try now to get back to the original subject of the thread: German soldiers with English names during WW II.

Best regards
Torsten

[ManfredV]

There are some german surnames, esp. in Northern Germany, which seem to be english, but they areoriginal german with german pronunciation. Some seem to be english by fortune, some may have the same anglo and saxon origine as english name.
Names like f.e. John, Turner, Ross, Jones...

[Sheldrake]

There are some german surnames, esp. in Northern Germany, which seem to be english, but they areoriginal german with german pronunciation. Some seem to be english by fortune, some may have the same anglo and saxon origine as english name.
Names like f.e. John, Turner, Ross, Jones...

Engeln is considered to be the original "England." They even drink tea in that part of the world. There is a second effect a North sea/ Hansa heritage where people settled across the water. Some Baltic names in the East coast ports and probably some English ones elsewhere.

[history1]

[...] Engeln is considered to be the original "England." [...] Some Baltic names in the East coast ports and probably some English ones elsewhere.

???
Does someone understand the meaning of the above?

[Sheldrake]

[...] Engeln is considered to be the original "England." [...] Some Baltic names in the East coast ports and probably some English ones elsewhere.

???
Does someone understand the meaning of the above?

No just my ramblings I should have written Angeln rather than Englen, which is about 50km from Angeln but not the same place.

1. The Angles, -Saxons and Jutes who settled in Roman Britain 1600 years ago brought a language which developed into "English."

The local dialect in Angeln is, at times, even today recognizably similar to English, and it has even more in common with the English of 1,000 years ago. Modern Frisian, especially spoken, bears an eerie resemblance to English, as can be seen by some of the Frisian words which were incorporated into English, like miel (meal), laam (lamb), goes (goose), bûter (butter), tsiis (cheese), see (sea), boat (boat), stoarm (storm), rein (rain), snie (snow), frieze (freeze), froast (frost), mist (mist), sliepe (sleep), blau (blue), trije (three), fjour (four), etc.

http://www.thehistoryofenglish.com/history_old.html

Frisien shares common words with English and some of these may be surnames.

2. For much of history the north sea was more of a communications link than a barrier. Many ports around the North sea and Baltic coasts may have minorities from trading partners. Some English names in the German army may be the result of some English sailor settling in a German port.

[linamonsen]

Immigration to Germany is nothing new. Genetically, one cannot speak of a German people as distinct from neighbouring peoples such as the French or Poles. Germans are simply Europeans who happen to speak German (the language), just like Americans are people from the US who speak the American variety of English.

In the past, many military, noble or other elite families were of non-German origin with non-German names. A huge percentage of Berlin's population is of French Huguenot descent. French, Italian, Polish, Hungarian etc names are absolutely common in Germany and Austria. Germany's minister of the interior is named Thomas de Maizière, being a descendant of French Huguenots from Maizières-lès-Metz near the French-German border who moved to Prussia in the 17th century.

English names are also not that unusual, especially in Hamburg and other northern areas. English people (Anglo-Saxons) are basically descended from emigrants from today's northern Germany (both the original Anglia (Angeln) and Saxony are in Germany) and belong to the small community of Germanic-speaking peoples with the Germans, the Dutch and the Scandinavians, and were/are well regarded in Germany. A person with an English name who served in the German military would be treated with respect during both WWI and WWII (and earlier) and noone would dream of giving him a hard time because of his name, rather the opposite, people would more likely think of it as elegant and maybe assume he was from Hamburg, which has many inhabitants of English descent and where the city-state's elite was very Anglophile and prone to give their children English names. The name could also be a northern German name that was just similar to an English name. Even if it was English, his family could have lived in Germany for centuries.

Also, names like Christian or Michael (or many other such names) are not English in any way, as suggested by some in this discussion. They are part of a common European culture and are found in some form or another in most European languages, and are very common German names. Christian is derived from the Egyptian word kheru, "word" or "voice", through the Koine Greek word Christós and the Latin Çhristus, used to replace the Biblical Hebrew term mashiach, "anointed". Michael is derived from the Hebrew מִיכָאֵל / מיכאל‎ (Mīkhāʼēl), derived from the question מי כאלmī kāʼēl, meaning "Who is like God?"

[sarahgoodson]

Immigration to Germany is nothing new. Genetically, one cannot speak of a German people as distinct from neighbouring peoples such as the French or Poles. Germans are simply Europeans who happen to speak German (the language), just like Americans are people from the US who speak the American variety of English.

Utter rubbish.

The Germans are quite clearly genetically different from neighbouring countries such as the French and Poles. Germans, French and Poles all belong to the same race (Caucasian/European/white) but genetically speaking they are different.

Ethnicity is more than just simply speaking a certain language. A person speaking the German language doesn't make them German.

There is no such thing as an American ethnicity which is based on ancestry (unlike German American or Irish American) whilst there is a German ethnicity which is precisely about ancestry, comparing Americans and Germans is like comparing apples and oranges.

[linamonsen]

The Germans are quite clearly genetically different from neighbouring countries such as the French and Poles. Germans, French and Poles all belong to the same race (Caucasian/European/white) but genetically speaking they are different.

Utter rubbish, completely detached from scientific knowledge. There is no such thing as "The Germans" as opposed to "The Danes", "The Swiss", "The French" or "The Poles" genetically speaking. A German from Rhineland-Palatinate is usually much more closely related to people from neighbouring areas of France than he is to some German person of Silesian ancestry (including lots of Slavic ancestry).

Also, there are no races from a scientific perspective either.

[sarahgoodson]

Utter rubbish, completely detached from scientific knowledge. There is no such thing as "The Germans" as opposed to "The Danes", "The Swiss", "The French" or "The Poles" genetically speaking. A German from Rhineland-Palatinate is usually much more closely related to people from neighbouring areas of France than he is to some German person of Silesian ancestry (including lots of Slavic ancestry).

They all belong to the same race (Caucasian/European/white) but they have different racial origins and are descended from different tribes.

I'm simply pointing out the fact that Germans, Poles, Danes, French or any other ethnic group you want to mention have different racial origins which is why they are different ethnic groups.

Also, there are no races from a scientific perspective either.

It's plain to see that the idea that races don't exist biologically is a left wing political correctness lie which is very easily debunked.

Even the UNESCO "The Race Question" in 1950 which was to try and condemn what is known as scientific racism did not deny a biological basis for racial categories.

Neven Sesardic explains that denying that races are not biological is a strawman: "racial recognition is not actually based on a single trait (like skin color) but rather on a number of characteristics that are to a certain extent concordant and that jointly make the classification not only possible but fairly reliable as well."

Also, forensic anthropologists can classify a person's race with an accuracy close to 100% using only skeletal remains if they take into consideration several characteristics at the same time. If race did not exist biologically then this would not be the case.