German soldiers with english names?

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Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#46

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 03 Jan 2016, 17:48

sarahgoodson wrote:Also, forensic anthropologists can classify a person's race with an accuracy close to 100% using only skeletal remains if they take into consideration several characteristics at the same time. If race did not exist biologically then this would not be the case.
Forensic anthropologists can distinguish a Korean or Nigerian from a German based on skeletal remains, but not e.g. a German from a French.

So what you wrote is statistically true, but only to a certain extent.
sarahgoodson wrote:There is no such thing as an American ethnicity which is based on ancestry (unlike German American or Irish American)
Actually, "American" (not to be confused with Native American or Amerindian) was declared by 13,298,761 people in 1980 census, 12,395,999 in 1990 census, 20,188,305 people in 2000, and so on. And they declared American as their one and only ethnicity/ancestry.

This means that in 1980 ethnic Americans were less than 6% of the U.S. population, and in 2000 they were already over 7%. :thumbsup:

So people actually DO self-identify as "ethnic Americans", even though they are currently less than 1/10 of U.S. population.

As for Irish-Americans and German-Americans - the majority of them are now ethnically mixed, and were already in 1980.

For example in the U.S. census of 1980 in total 40,165,702 Americans self-identified as Irish, but only 10,337,353 of them (or 26%) reported Irish Alone, while 29,828,349 reported two or more ethnicities/ancestries, with Irish among them. So they were not purely Irish. The same refers to German-Americans, who numbered 49,224,146 in 1980, but just 17,943,485 (36%) declared German to be their only heritage.

English ancestry was reported by 49,598,035 Americans but just 23,748,772 (49%) self-identified as unmixed English Alone.

Scottish ancestry was declared by 10,048,816 Americans but only 1,172,904 (12%) self-identified as unmixed Scottish Alone.

And such ethnic mixing did not start in America, but was taking place already before their ancestors emigrated from Europe. Most of Americans actually think that the melting pot has started only once they got to the New World, which is both naive and false to believe.
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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Harro
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#47

Post by Harro » 03 Jan 2016, 18:25

linamonsen wrote:A German from Rhineland-Palatinate is usually much more closely related to people from neighbouring areas of France than he is to some German person of Silesian ancestry (including lots of Slavic ancestry)
It is perhaps interesting to note that some people within the SS struggled with that. Racial profiler Georg Albert Rödel headed the Race and Settlement Office of the ‘Einwandererzentralstelle’ (Central Immigrations Office, or EWZ) of the RuSHA in northern France. Sent to France to investigate the large group of Polish immigrants residing in northern France he became intrigued by the ‘racial quality’ of the population of northern France as a whole. I a memorandum Rödel sent to the RuSHA head office in Berlin on the 17th of September 1943 in which he forwarded his observations he even went as far as stating that in his opinion, the northern French were racially superior to the population of his own home district Baden. Rödel deemed that their ‘Nordic appearance’ and ‘impeccable attitude’ were suitable qualifications to permit their inclusion in the ‘Großgermanischen Bewegung’ (Greater Germanic movement):

“From a racial point of view these people are excellent and correspond in no way to what we are used to consider to be applicable regarding the French people [...] I emphasise again: there is very much good blood in the French people, in particular in the north. This blood, depending on how things develop, can either be a valuable source for the power of our people or a dangerous enemy."

The propagation of a Greater Germanic Reich and the fear that an opportunity to Germanize this ‘high-quality Northern French blood’ could be missed, was grist to the mills of the SS as it wanted the recruitment of foreign volunteers by the Waffen-SS to be backed up by the racial laws. Rödel felt that the necessary ideological education also had to be aimed at the French women. He did not rate them quite as high as their male compatriots but naturally the RuSHA-officer blamed the usual suspects for their apparent shortcomings:

"To this day the French woman has been so consistently influenced by the Jewish-libertarian imaginary world that above all she wants to enjoy her life. An equally intensive promotion of the idea of [their] duty towards the future of the nation may produce surprising results. Initial steps have been made.”


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sarahgoodson
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#48

Post by sarahgoodson » 04 Jan 2016, 00:11

Peter K wrote:[Forensic anthropologists can distinguish a Korean or Nigerian from a German based on skeletal remains, but not e.g. a German from a French.

So what you wrote is statistically true, but only to a certain extent.
That's because Germans and French belong to the same race.
Actually, "American" (not to be confused with Native American or Amerindian) was declared by 13,298,761 people in 1980 census, 12,395,999 in 1990 census, 20,188,305 people in 2000, and so on. And they declared American as their one and only ethnicity/ancestry.

This means that in 1980 ethnic Americans were less than 6% of the U.S. population, and in 2000 they were already over 7%. :thumbsup:

So people actually DO self-identify as "ethnic Americans", even though they are currently less than 1/10 of U.S. population.

As for Irish-Americans and German-Americans - the majority of them are now ethnically mixed, and were already in 1980.

For example in the U.S. census of 1980 in total 40,165,702 Americans self-identified as Irish, but only 10,337,353 of them (or 26%) reported Irish Alone, while 29,828,349 reported two or more ethnicities/ancestries, with Irish among them. So they were not purely Irish. The same refers to German-Americans, who numbered 49,224,146 in 1980, but just 17,943,485 (36%) declared German to be their only heritage.

English ancestry was reported by 49,598,035 Americans but just 23,748,772 (49%) self-identified as unmixed English Alone.

Scottish ancestry was declared by 10,048,816 Americans but only 1,172,904 (12%) self-identified as unmixed Scottish Alone.

And such ethnic mixing did not start in America, but was taking place already before their ancestors emigrated from Europe. Most of Americans actually think that the melting pot has started only once they got to the New World, which is both naive and false to believe.
The American ethnicity is not based on ancestry alone unlike Irish American, etc. I made this point very clear.

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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#49

Post by linamonsen » 04 Jan 2016, 07:54

sarahgoodson wrote:They all belong to the same race (Caucasian/European/white) but they have different racial origins and are descended from different tribes.
This is not true at all. Even if we do consider various groups 1000, 2000 years ago "different tribes", the relevance is very limited indeed when we are talking about modern Germans, who are descended, to varying extent, from all the tribes we find in continental Europe e.g. 2000 years ago, and who are also the result of much more recent intermarriages between different groups, eg. with Slavic peoples.

"The Germans" (of today) are not descended from a single "German" tribe as opposed to "The Dutch" or "The Danes", or even "The French" or "The Poles". Of course the German language and hence a core component of German culture originated in various Germanic tribes at a certain point in time, but that is an entirely different matter.

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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#50

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 04 Jan 2016, 17:06

The American ethnicity is not based on ancestry alone unlike Irish American, etc.
But "Irish" is not a uniform ancestry either, given that apart from Gael they also have Scotch, Norse, English, etc. blood.
"The Germans" (of today) are not descended from a single "German" tribe as opposed to "The Dutch" or "The Danes", or even "The French" or "The Poles".
"As opposed to" ??? None of these groups is descended from "a single tribe", but perhaps the Dutch are the closest to this.
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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sarahgoodson
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#51

Post by sarahgoodson » 04 Jan 2016, 20:11

linamonsen wrote:This is not true at all. Even if we do consider various groups 1000, 2000 years ago "different tribes", the relevance is very limited indeed when we are talking about modern Germans, who are descended, to varying extent, from all the tribes we find in continental Europe e.g. 2000 years ago, and who are also the result of much more recent intermarriages between different groups, eg. with Slavic peoples.

"The Germans" (of today) are not descended from a single "German" tribe as opposed to "The Dutch" or "The Danes", or even "The French" or "The Poles". Of course the German language and hence a core component of German culture originated in various Germanic tribes at a certain point in time, but that is an entirely different matter.
Straw man.

Do you even have a clue what you're talking about? All of the European peoples belong to the Caucasian race known generally as the "white race" this includes the ethnic groups you've mentioned.

Who said any ethnic group was descended from one single tribe? I've repeatedly stated that ethnic groups are formed by a mixture of different tribes.
Peter K wrote:But "Irish" is not a uniform ancestry either, given that apart from Gael they also have Scotch, Norse, English, etc. blood.
The Wikipedia article on American ethnicity should make it more easier for you to understand:
American ethnicity refers to people who self-identify their ethnicity as "American" and not as a more specific ancestry such as German American or Irish American.
Or let me guess, you're just be splitting hairs in your next reply to prove you are always right.

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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#52

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 04 Jan 2016, 22:41

Or let me guess, you're just be splitting hairs in your next reply to prove you are always right.
OK, you are right this time (I'm not always right - usually, yes, but not always). :)
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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sarahgoodson
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#53

Post by sarahgoodson » 06 Jan 2016, 10:34

Peter K wrote:OK, you are right this time (I'm not always right - usually, yes, but not always). :)
Nothing could be further from the truth.

You like to THINK you are "usually" right, there is a world of difference.

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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#54

Post by Sheldrake » 06 Jan 2016, 10:58

I think we are looking at cultural rather than racial differences.

Before WW2 it was far more common for Germans to emigrate to the British Empire than for Britons to make the return journey. There was a wave of catholic and, or Stuart political emigres hundreds of years earlier.

The population in C19th Germany was growing at a fast rate. The British economy was stronger and the Empire offered opportunities for the ambitious - at all ranks of society. Far more Germans sought "lebensraum" individually as Britons or Americans than ever settled in Hitler's Eastern Empire. From the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha on the throne to the Battenburg and von Gleichen in command to the Freyburg and Kippenburger who joined up in 1914.

There were odd people who made the return journey. Bruno Friesen's memoir is entitled 'Panzer Gunner: From My Native Canada to the German Ostfront and Back. In Action with 25th Panzer Regiment, 7th Panzer Division 1944-45' http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panzer-Gunner-O ... 1906033110 Although his name sounds German his father was a Volga German who had emigrated to Canada and been lured to Germany after experiencing economic hardship in the 1930s.

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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#55

Post by Dwight Pruitt » 01 Oct 2016, 22:33

Nachname:Jasper
Vorname:Hans Eilert
Dienstgrad:Grenadier
Geburtsdatum:17.06.1913
Geburtsort:Ellwürden
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:09.05.1943
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Priwolnoje 9 km nordw. Nowo-Druschewka
Lissitschansk

ManfredV
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#56

Post by ManfredV » 30 Oct 2016, 23:27

And? Jasper is a german name from North Germany. Ellwürden is a quarter of Nordenham near Bremen.

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historygeek
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#57

Post by historygeek » 12 Feb 2017, 10:22

There's no way the SS would take a man with a British surname.

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Harro
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#58

Post by Harro » 12 Feb 2017, 10:28

historygeek wrote:There's no way the SS would take a man with a British surname.
Because....?

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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#59

Post by historygeek » 12 Feb 2017, 10:32

Harro wrote:
historygeek wrote:There's no way the SS would take a man with a British surname.
Because....?
It's because they would have needed to trace their ancestors and having a British ancestor would not have looked good in the SS.

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Harro
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Re: German soldiers with english names?

#60

Post by Harro » 12 Feb 2017, 10:34

historygeek wrote:
Harro wrote:
historygeek wrote:There's no way the SS would take a man with a British surname.
Because....?
It's because they would have needed to trace their ancestors and having a British ancestor would not have looked good in the SS.
You are aware of the British Free Corps?

SS-Mann William Alexander

SS-Mann Frank Axon

SS-Mann Harry Batchelor

SS-Mann Ronald Barker (Australian)

SS-Mann Kenneth Edward Berry

Blackman

SS-Rottenführer William Charles Britten

Alfred Browning

Chapman

SS-Mann Robert Chipchase (Australian)

William Clarke

SS-Oberscharführer Thomas Haller Cooper

SS-Unterscharführer Roy Nicholas Courlander (New Zealander)

SS-Unterscharführer Hugh Wilson Cowie

SS-Mann Frederick Croft

SS-Mann George Croft

Arthur James Cryderman (Canadian)

Clifford Dowden

SS-Mann Ellsmore

SS Oberscharführer Thomas Freeman

SS-Mann Roy Ralph Futcher

Cyril Haines

SS-Mann Robert Reginald Heighes

SS-Mann William How

SS-Mann Edward Jackson

Thomas Blake Kipling

SS-Mann Pieter Labuschagne ( South African)

SS-Mann Robert Henry Lane

John Leigh

SS-Mann Dennis John Leister

Frederick Lewis

SS-Mann Alexander MacKinnon

SS-Unterscharführer Douglas Mardon (South African)

SS-Rottenführer Edwin Barnard Martin (Canadian)

SS-Unterscharführer Francis Paul Maton

SS-Unterscharführer Francis George MacLardy

SS-Mann William John Miller

SS-Sturmmann Alfred Vivian Minchin

SS-Mann Charles Munns

SS-Mann Ernest Nicholls

SS-Mann Harry Nightingale

SS-Mann Thomas Perkins

SS-Mann Eric Reginald Pleasants

SS-Sturmmann Norman Rose

SS-Mann Herbert Rowlands

SS-Untersturmführer William Shearer

SS-Mann John Somerville

SS-Mann Albert Stokes (Australian)

SS-Sturmmann Henry Symonds

Van Heerden (South African)

SS-Mann Viljoen (South African)

John Wilson

SS-Oberscharführer John Eric Wilson

SS-Mann Lionel Wood (Australian)

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