wm wrote:Well, he must have changed his mind
. Hitler in a requiem mass for the great Polish hero Józef Piłsudski:
requiem mass.jpg
Goebbels wanted to leave his wife and children for Lida Baarova, a Czech actress but Hitler got mad.
As early as 1925 Hitler called the Poles a foreign race who could not be Germanised and in 1933 was calling for the "ruthless Germanisation" of the East.
I'm aware Goebbels wasn't anti-Slavic, despite what Nazi propaganda said about Slavs.
The reasons were: politicians frequently don't practice what they preached; before the WW2 they couldn't do that for political reasons; and there
were differences of opinion.
So even Rosenberg favoured German expansion in Russia.
No it wasn't. It was after the war started. All Slavs? I'm not sure.
It seems as though they tried every possible means of prohibiting sexual intercourse between Germans and Slavs.
In contrast, sexual relations between Germans and members of Eastern European nations were relentlessly prosecuted by the Gestapo on grounds of the "risk for the racial integrity of the German nation," and as usual only two sanctions were apples: committal to a concentration camp if the foreign offender was capable of being Germanized, or execution ("special treatment"). Preventive detention was demanded in the case of German offenders. This concerned above all Polish workers, the first to arrive in the Reich, but also Polish prisoners of war, over whom hung the threat of committal to a concentration camp, at least provisionally. A leaflet on the "duties of civilian workers . . . of Polish nationality" confirmed explicitly that the death sentence would be meted out for the offense of sexual intercourse with personals of German blood. Russians ("Eastern workers"), Czechs, Serbs, and others later came to be included in this category.
Diemut Majer, "Non-Germans Under the Third Reich", p. 180-181.
Greiser had summarily stated in an order of the day that marriages between Poles and marriages between Jews were provisionally banned, that marriages between ethnic Germans must "comply with the Nuremberg Race Laws," and that "if at all possible," there should be no marriage between Germans and Poles.
Ibid, p. 247.
During the war hundreds of thousands of workers from foreign countries, particularly from the East, were brought into Germany as forced laborers in factories and agriculture. With this advent of foreigners there naturally followed incidents of sexual intercourse between the foreigners and Germans. The Nazis, in order to meet this situation, began the issuance of numerous decrees concerning the treatment of foreigners who had sexual intercourse with Germans. Foreign nationals, particularly from the East, including Poles, Czechs, and Russians, were subject to these decrees (both civilians and prisoners of war). As early as 7/3/1940 Pancke, then chief of RuSHA, sent a report to the office of Bormann, assistant to Hess, suggesting the issuance of laws to protect German blood. Pancke said:
"At present there are hundreds of thousands of prisoners in Germany of all nationalities and degrees, partly in camps, but for the most part, however, as workers.
"* * * The dangers of intermixing and bastardizing of our people are extraordinarily grave. They lie to a great extent in the almost unlimited lack of knowledge throughout our nations of the problems of blood."
Following Pancke's suggestion, the Reich Security Main Office, known as RSHA, and under Himmler, began dealing with the problem by promulgating decrees which provided that in the event a foreigner had sexual intercourse with a German woman, he should be arrested and examined by a racial examiner of RuSHA. Upon the basis of this examination depended the treatment accorded the foreigner. Those determined to be racially inferior were subject to "special treatment" or a concentration camp; those found to be racially valuable were subject to Germanization. In order that the term "special treatment" might not be misunderstood, we quote from a decree issued by RSHA:
"Special treatment is hanging. * * *
"Sexual intercourse is forbidden to the manpower of the original Soviet Russian territory.
"For every case of sexual intercourse with German countrymen or women, special treatment is to be requested for male manpower from the original Soviet Russian territory, transfer to a concentration camp for female manpower.
"When exercising sexual intercourse with other foreign workers the conduct of the manpower from the original Soviet Russian territory is to be punished as severe violation of discipline with transfer to a concentration camp.
"The intercourse between other foreign workers employed in the Reich and the manpower from the original Soviet Russian territory also brings great dangers to be dealt with by the security police, therefore, it should also be fought with measures against the foreign workers. * * *"
The principal participants in carrying out measures relating to this charge were Himmler's organization, RSHA, which issued decrees and had the final decision on punishment after racial examination, and RuSHA, which made the racial examination and evaluation upon which depended to a large extent whether the offender should die or receive a lighter punishment.
That RuSHA was an active participant in these measures cannot be denied, for practically every decree or piece of correspondence concerning this subject either originated in the office of RuSHA or was sent to that office, or else the correspondence or decrees mentioned RuSHA's role in the matter.
We need quote but a few documents to show the close connection RuSHA had with this program.
On 9/14/1942, a letter originating from the office of RuSHA while Hofmann was chief of that office, stated:
"It is requested that in all special treatment cases where German women have become pregnant by men of alien races, the offenders be racially examined without delay.
"The Reich Security Main Office has instructed its branch office to present these cases immediately to the Commissioner of the SS Race and Settlement Main Office."
In a report sent to Hofmann in October 1942, we find the following:
"The order given by the Reich Leader of the SS on the special treatment of Poles is extended to the Czechs too. The Reich Security Main Office continues to complain that a quicker decision must be reached concerning suitability for Germanization. It proposes a short course of instruction for all the heads of the State Police Regional Offices and afterwards the inauguration through these of a system of rough racial selection of the civilian workers suggested for special treatment. On account of principal considerations this consent to the Reich Security Main Office had to be refused. It then remains for us, however, on the other hand to guarantee that the examination process will be speeded up. Once more reference must be made to the regular submission of the expert opinions to the Higher SS and Police Leaders. * * *"
Hofmann's complete familiarity with and participation in this program is shown by instructions he himself issued while Higher SS and Police Leader, after he left RuSHA. He said:
"With regard to illicit sexual intercourse of laborers of foreign stock the following ordinances are in force:
"All serious offenses such as assault and sexual offenses and sexual intercourse with German women and girls are to be reported at once to the Security Service (Security Police); as a matter of principle the department of justice will not be contacted in the beginning. As a rule both parties will be arrested.
"After being investigated as to his nationality the party of foreign race is subject to a racial evaluation by the competent RuS field leader; a potential suitability toward Germanization is to be explored.
"When a case of sexual intercourse is detected, the Amtsarzt (official physician) has to ascertain whether the participating German woman is pregnant. It is to be stated how far the pregnancy is advanced and whether another and what person beside the one of foreign stock in question might have fathered the prospective child (this investigation to be made by the Youth Office). If the person of foreign stock is fit for Germanization and if both parties are evaluated favorably under the racial viewpoint, marriage is possible under certain conditions, however, marriage between laborers from Serbia, or other Eastern laborers, and German girls are not permitted for the time being. A female worker of foreign stock, caused by the German man (in abuse of his position) to submit to sexual intercourse, will be taken into protective custody for a brief period, thereafter assigned to a different job. In other cases the female worker of foreign race is to be confined to a concentration camp for women. Pregnant women are to be sent to a concentration camp only after they have given birth and stilled the baby."
In 1943 Hildebrandt succeeded Hofmann as chief of RuSHA. The measures with reference to punishment of foreigners for sexual intercourse continued thereafter. During the time Hildebrandt was chief, two copies of Kaltenbrunner's decree of 2/10/1944 were sent to RuSHA. This decree, marked "secret", was a ten-page detailed order covering the procedure in cases involving foreigners who had had sexual intercourse with Germans. With reference to "special treatment" the decree states:
"Especially acts of sabotage, crimes of violence, and immoral crimes as well as sexual intercourse with German women and girls are to be considered as severe offenses
"On principle, the cases will not be handed over to Justice. Only those cases are to be transmitted there, where a court sentence appears to be desirable for reasons of political disposition of the public and where it has keen ascertained by sounding that the court will pass the death sentence * * *.
"Carrying out the special treatment shall serve especially to intimidate the foreign workers inside the Reich, this, however, will only be completely achieved if the expiation follows the deed at once.
Therefore the inquiries have to be completed immediately. It must be made possible for the reports to be submitted to RSHA in the case of B I, 4 days at the latest, B II, 2 months at the latest, B III, 3 weeks at the latest after the event. These offices which are involved in the process, are to be informed of this fact."
Hildebrandt, while on the witness stand, first denied that he comprehended the meaning of the term "special treatment", but later admitted that he knew that in the case of "special treatment" hanging might result.
Hildebrandt's familiarity with "special treatment" procedure is clearly shown in one of his own orders. On 3/31/1944, he appointed Dr. Turner as a deputy with powers to act in his absence. This appointment, according to the order, was made because Hildebrandt's assignment in the East would last a little while longer. In the order of appointment, Hildebrandt said:
"As before, I reserve the right to make long-range decisions as well as decisions of a fundamental nature. However, I again expressly decree that the official channel to me leads only via my deputy.
"Petitions for engagement and marriage permits and special treatment cases for submission to the Reich Leader SS are from 3/1/1944 to be submitted every week to SS Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Turner, when in Berlin, for dispatching to the Reich Leader SS, or to the Reich Security Main Office. When SS Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Turner is absent from Berlin, the chiefs of the marriage office and the race office retain the right of signature as ordered in point 5 of letter of 12/16/1943."
Thus, not only did Hildebrandt have familiarity with the term "special treatment", but he, and those deputized by him and under his express orders, actually handled special treatment cases.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56438
You should read Rosenberg I suppose, he knew: attitude towards Slavs was flexible and depended on the particular nation involved.
That's not his words but is from the Wikipedia article.
As far as I know the Poles were Aryans, because Aryan = non-Jew. In the occupied Poland, there were Jews in the Ghettos and Aryans outside, everybody used this classification.
Hitler called the Poles as a foreign race and the Slavs an inferior race, it doesn't seem plausible he considered Poles or other Slavs as Aryans.
I'm aware that the definition of Aryan was essentially a non-Jewish European but when it came to Hitler's own opinion it seems he only considered the Germanic people as Aryans.
It doesn't make much sense to consider the Poles as Aryans then regard them as racially inferior and prohibit sexual intercourse between a German and a Pole.
They were discriminated against if they didn't want to became true Germans and flaunted their "Polishness".
So in order to not be discriminated against, an ethnic Pole had to ignore any sort of Polish identity?
Certainly not, you didn't want to be a Jew at that time, but a Pole why not.
Unless you mean the Poles weren't allowed to sleep with German women. Who knows who was the loser in this case
I'm referring to the decree on 4 December, 1941.
Yes, see Rosenberg. But not always for this blood reason. Always there were other "non-bloody" reasons for discrimination.
But most Nazis thought of the Slavs as racially inferior, this is the point.