A 1932 map of the ethnic German population in Eastern Europe

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Futurist
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Re: A 1932 map of the ethnic German population in Eastern Europe

#16

Post by Futurist » 02 May 2016, 05:20

Peter K wrote:Austrian historian Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn in his book "Die falsh gestellten Weichen: Der rote faden 1789-1984", writes that the best border solutions after WW1 would have been:

- give Grenzmark Posen-Westpreussen (that area of 7.695 km2 shown above) to Poland
How about simply holding a plebiscite there, though?
- give Danzig to Poland (instead of creating a Free City there), ignoring ethnic structure
That I am actually tempted to agree with! :) After all, Danzig appears to have been much more important for Poland than it was for Germany.
- create Upper Silesia as a Polish-German condominium instead of partitioning the region
Wouldn't both Germany and Poland have opposed this, though?
When it comes to East Prussia, separated from the rest of Germany by Polish territory - von Kuehnelt-Leddihn compared it to Alaska, separated from the rest of the USA by Canadian territory.
Good analogy (other than for the fact that, unlike Alaska, I consider East Prussia to be a "gateway" to eastern Lebensraum for Germany ;)).
He also wrote: "probably it would have been better, if East Prussia was incorporated to Poland as well".
Well, at the very least, this probably wouldn't have created a German demographic problem for Poland like the annexation of the Sudetenland arguably did for the Czech Republic. Indeed, maybe Germany should have received some/most/all (depending on whether or not Austria is annexed to Germany) of the Sudetenland from Austria while losing all of East Prussia to Poland. After all, this would have certainly resulted in nicer and cleaner borders for Germany. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_von_Kuehnelt-Leddihn
Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (born July 31, 1909 in Tobelbad (now Haselsdorf-Tobelbad), Austria-Hungary; died May 26, 1999, in Lans, Austria) was an Austrian Catholic nobleman and socio-political theorist. Describing himself as an "extreme conservative arch-liberal" or "liberal of the extreme right", Kuehnelt-Leddihn often argued that majority rule in democracies is a threat to individual liberties, and declared himself a monarchist and an enemy of all forms of totalitarianism.[1]
Thanks for sharing this link with us, Peter! :D

Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: A 1932 map of the ethnic German population in Eastern Europe

#17

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 02 May 2016, 05:23

unlike Alaska, I consider East Prussia to be a "gateway" to eastern Lebensraum for Germany ;)).
What if e.g. President George W. Bush had decided to turn Russia into western Lebensraum for Americans, though?

In such, Alaska would have also become a "gateway" for that American Lebensraum in Eastern Russia... :D
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.


Futurist
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Re: A 1932 map of the ethnic German population in Eastern Europe

#18

Post by Futurist » 02 May 2016, 06:54

Peter K wrote:
unlike Alaska, I consider East Prussia to be a "gateway" to eastern Lebensraum for Germany ;)).
What if e.g. President George W. Bush had decided to turn Russia into western Lebensraum for Americans, though?

In such, Alaska would have also become a "gateway" for that American Lebensraum in Eastern Russia... :D
Yes; correct! :) However:

1. Russia has nukes.
2. This "gateway" isn't territorially contiguous with Russia.
3. This "gateway" is probably much colder than East Prussia.

Thus, while it certainly is a "gateway" to Lebensraum for Americans, it certainly doesn't appear to be as good of a "gateway" to Lebensraum as East Prussia was for Germans.

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