Scott Smith wrote:walterkaschner wrote:IMHO disagreement with the recent U.S. war against Iraq simply bears no comparison with disagreement with continuation of Germany's war against the Allies, which, in the opinion of many of the military plotters, was hopelessly lost after the 1941-42 Winter, and by virtually all after the Normandy invasion. Scott Smith's analogy in this regard is specious to the nth degree.
Well, it's not a perfect analogy; for one thing no war has been declared. But attempting to assassinate the President during the the "War on Terrah" would probably be viewed as treason just the same. Going to pray with the Taliban would be considered treason at least.
:)
My point was not that no war had been declared, but rather that the July 20 plotters (at least most of them) desired to end a war which was hopelessly lost, the continuation of which they believed could serve no useful purpose, but only heap additional suffering, death and destruction upon the German people and ultimately lead to an even greater catastrophy for the German nation.
BTW, the crime of "treason" is quite narrowly drawn in the U.S. Constitution. Article III, Section 3 provides that "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." The testimony of two witnesses to the alleged act is required for conviction. I find it hard to believe that under that test, either the assasination of the President or praying with the Taliban, in and of themselves, could support a conviction for treason.
Of course the framers of the U.S. Constitution had to be somewhat tender about the concept of treason. After all, the United States was born out of treason against the King of England, and the Founding Fathers were well aware that they themselves were guilty of it. Wasn't it Benjamin Franklin who said : "If we don't all hang together, we will all hang separately"?
So as an American, it seems to me that treason, at least as the term is used in generally accepted parlance, may, under certain circumstances, be an acceptable thing, and that simply dismissing the action of the July 20 plotters as treasonable (which it probably legally was under the law of the Third Reich) does not put an end to the discussion - unless, of course, one believes that there is no higher good than a slavish obedience to the State, however evil, oppresive, corrupt and utterly despicable that State may be. Such a belief IMHO was at the very heart of Fascism - so long, of course, as the State in question was a Fascist one - the principle tenet of which was the subservience of every individual interest to the corporate interest of the State as a whole, as determined by the totalitarian dictatorship at its head.
To my mind the real issue regarding the German Resistance is not whether it was treasonable. So what if it was? The real issue is: Was it the right thing to do? I have no answer to that, although my sympathies, admittedly romantic, lie with with the resistors. The conflicting considerations of duty to country, duty to God, duty to one's family, duty to one's own principles of honor and decency illuminate to me the agony of decision that many of the participants had to undergo. And I suppose that in the actual context in which the participants (and non-participants)had to answer that question for themselves the problem was such an individual and existential one that there is no way a definitive and universal answer can ever be established, either on this Forum or elsewhere. The issue of individual conscience against orders of the State is to my mind one of the most poignant conflicts in human history; essentially the same in our time as it was in Sophocles' some 2500 years ago, witness his
Antigone.
That being my own view of it, I think it pointless for me to participate in any further discussion of the merits of the German Resistance to Hitler, although I probably will be eager to try to set right what I believe to be factual errors that may be reflected in further posts.
Regards, Kaschner[/i]
