► Photothread: German and Beute Ford vehicles

[Oracle]

I think it'e either a Fordson E98T or E91T with County Commercial Cars Ltd "Surrey" 6-wheeler conversion (on the Dagenham line) if it's 134 inch wheelbase or E987T / E917T with "Sussex" conversion if it's a 157 in wheelbase. The E98T/E987T had the 24 hp V-8 and the E91T/E917T had the 30 hp.

When it comes to English Ford cab fronts, I get lost but I have a Xerox of a 1942 Ford identification document that helps. It seems that Dagenham used the same front end designs as the US and Canadian ones, plus their own and "old" models continued in production after the N American Model Year had finished. In addition there were also from 1940 diverted Romanian exports ["R-" prefix, US-ordered chassis-cabs , diverted US/Canadian [French?] orders, and Canadian trucks assembled to British and Canadian contracts ["EC"-prefix].

[Bill Murray]

Panzermacher:

Your last looks very similar to the Australian MH Fords they purchased in, I think, 1941.

In the US, Marmon Herrington furnished fully assembled Ford trucks 4X4 and 6X6 to not only US forces but also other countries.
As well, they furnished kits to other countries such as Rumania where the local Ford assembly factory installed the drive train components. The Rumanian trucks were 1939 pattern as I remember.

As to the Re-enactment question, I guess in war anything was possible. The particular truck you show could have been captured in North Africa, many were, and used by both the Germans and the Italians.

BTW, where are you living? Your last two pics seem particularly Australian.
Bill

[Bill Murray]

Sander/David:
Definitely a 1939 vintage British Ford but I do not recognize the registration plate as being British but I also know next to nothing about registration plates.
It could have been one of the rather rare photographic vans that were mounted on that chassis or, as Sander says, another body could have been mounted on it.

[Bill Murray]

To try to help a little faster, I will try to post here a Ford ID Chart in German that covers most of the prewar years up to 1941.
Edit: Sorry I posted it in reverse order. Also, you should be able to enlarge the photos to get the details a little better. Note that this is for the German market only.
Bill

[SIS 5]

Hi Bill,

thank You very, very much for the phantastic Id chart for Ford vehicles. For me it´ll be an enormous help for identifying Ford trucks in the future.
I posted a pic from an old Norwegian Ford truck, captured by German troops in 1940. For me it´s a Ford AA, but I´m not sure. I´m sorry, I cannot tell, where I´ve got the pic from.

regards

Bert

[Sander D]

Orical wrote :

think it'e either a Fordson E98T or E91T with County Commercial Cars Ltd "Surrey" 6-wheeler conversion (on the Dagenham line) if it's 134 inch wheelbase or E987T / E917T with "Sussex" conversion if it's a 157 in wheelbase. The E98T/E987T had the 24 hp V-8 and the E91T/E917T had the 30 hp.

I only have a Wheels and tracks magazine nr 50 for comparing with not the best pictures ,( showing fordson barrage ballonn winch, the E 817T (1938) and E 917T (1939))
I get a little lost here because i also noticed that the frond nose is divided in 2 pieces???? have a look picture below.
The E 817T (1938)model don’t have that (made out one piece looking at the comparing picture )and the E 917T (1939) model has it half way the grill,the fordson in my picture has the cut way lower?????.
I don’t know if the types you mentioned the Fordson E98T or E91T have the cut on the right place.





Regards

Sander

Bill ,here's a nice picture of a civilian ford from Belgium Zonhoven,looks like belgium soldiers surrender .

[Bill Murray]

Here is a Ford V8 Spezial
Bill

[Bill Murray]

Sander:
Regarding the 1939/1939 differences, the only real difference I can see on many photos of both years is that the 1938 has a much wider band of chromium separating the two grille halves than the 1939 model has.
Here is another example of the many cab styles you can see on Ford trucks of the time.
I believe this to be a 1939 German example.
Bill

[Oracle]

I also use http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flat ... Dchart.htm for my identification!

The six-wheeler English Fords would have the same grilles, that is all 1938 the same, all 1939 the same. County Commercial Cars Limited of London and Fleet in Hampshire provided conversions on Ford (and other) chassis to either 6x2 or 6x4 drive and Dagenham installed the conversions as well on the production line. CCC I think used Thornton-Detroit rear bogie components and with Universal Power Drives Limited of Perivale, Middlesex imported Marom-Herrington conversions. We know of Canadian Fords with both M-H 6x6 and M-H front axle and US Thornton rear bogies and the latter was trialled by the War Department in England in 1939 as well....mix and match components!

I have a photo of a 1940-built E917T searchlight carrier in British service or South African Defence Force service but it does now show the grille as it is a three-quarter rear view.

[Bill Murray]

Here is another bit of a mystery.
Looks German but the Germans did not seem to use Fords as tractors.
The windmill in the background may indicate a Dutch impressed vehicle.
Also note it has the Holzgas apparatus.
Bill

[Bill Murray]

Oracle:

Your point about 1938/1939 British ford grilles is interesting and is one of the always difficult points of determining exactly the year of a given Ford, or for that matter almost any American origin or brand vehicle. manufactured or assembled outside of the US.

As an "enthusiastic amateur" I try to not get to bogged down in determining the exact year model, or sometimes even the model within the year model, as I am not a serious researcher nor am I an author of books on the subject.

Aside from that comment, I have learned over the last 50 years or so of collecting materiel on military transport vehicles that there was a large amount of so called "badge engineering" or swapping of parts by the overseas factories of American companies.

It would seem that in many countries if parts were left over from a previous model year, they were carried on to the next model year or the year may have been skipped completely.

As an example, here is a Ford that I would say is 1938/1939 but I am not all that sure.
Bill

[Panzerserra]

Well , I have many Fords....

See that, Gents...
all are from my collection....1/35 scale...

My Ford 01 LRDG



Ford 37 Bus (made in Romain, captured By Germans in Holland, Freies Indien)





Ford 37 Wasserlastwagen (Sanitary Company)





Ford 3000 Fuel Tank






Ford 3000 Aussie (Australian) sorry...







Ford 3000 Mautier:







Ford G917





Ford 36/37 Cargo:







and...




heheheheheheheheheh

regards

Panzerserra

[Bill Murray]

Great models Panzerserra!!!!
To keep it going, here is a beute Gaz/Ford AA truck with an interesting body.
Bill

[Bill Murray]

And a couple of BB models, one German the other I think is originally Belgian
Bill

[Bill Murray]

Here we have a 1935 German Ford as an umbau-wagen.
A sedan that has been converted to some sort of radio vehicle.
Bill