Photos of vehicles in the Falaise gap

[Bayerlein spirit]

help ID for this Tiger (canadian area 8-22 august 1944)

The same or not?

THANX

[Michael Kenny]

The Tiger with the soldier measuring the tracks is one of a series and in views of the other side several deep penetrations are evident in the turret. They are not the same Tiger.

[Michael Kenny]

The first Tiger has the small muzzle brake whilst the 'Canadian' one has the largerer version.

[Bayerlein spirit]

Thanx Michael

Like twin tiger but muzzle....Ok

Have you an idea 503 102 or 101 for those two tigers?

[Michael Kenny]

The 'Canadian' Tiger is 223 from SS 102. The style of the numbers matches photos of known 102 vehicles. For the Ormel Tiger, who knows?.

[Bayerlein spirit]

Oky Michael

Also Tiger 231 schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 102 was destroyed near Falaise on august 14th and the whole crew wil no survive (note invasion normandy Heimdal)

123...128 tiger1 in normandy do you think we will find 123...128 pictures ?
This work is no easy but I want to beleive. I will share with john http://www.angelfire.com/al4/mldgbox/index-bw.html and on this thread for new tigers pictures

good thread isn't it? 100 post and we continue

[Trommelfeuer]

I found the original photo of the "SS-Hitlerjugend prisoner", I don't think we see Falaise-gap prisoners / prisoners on this photo....

source: http://stolz.by.ru/

With friendly greetings, Sven

[- Barbarossa Isegrim -]

to 6 juin 1944 + addition tanks [ june- july - august ]: total German tanks in Normandy( Panther 655.... PzIV 897.... Tiger1 123 .....and Tiger2 26....stugs 440 and others 306 ======>TOTAL 2447

about 100 tanks cross the Seine......

And all 2500 tanks lost? Are you sure of that?

I have seen a tank loss number for June to end of August 1944 Normandy, from a guy who has access to the German loss reports. Unfortunately that forum is down by now, so I can`t give the exact details, but I remember very clearly that the combined number of lost tanks and AGs ("totalausfalles") on the German side was exactly 950.

2500 tanks lost seems way too high. That`s 10 complete armored divisions. How many were encircled at Falaise, not that many. I think there`s some confusion here.

[Bayerlein spirit]

I found this table (Total panzer by unit in normandy 6.06 to 25.08.1944)
Correct or not?

[Timo]

I found the original photo of the "SS-Hitlerjugend prisoner", I don't think we see Falaise-gap prisoners / prisoners on this photo

True, we most definitely see SS soldiers right after the award ceremony.

[Michael Kenny]

No reliable tables survive to give German losses in Normandy. Zetterling gives a total of around 1500 tanks/s.p's lost up to August.

[Aufklarung]

I don't think we see Falaise-gap prisoners / prisoners on this photo....

I had my suspicions if the pic I posted showed a prisoner. If he really was then I suspect that his awards would be in some allied soldiers pocket and not around his neck!! Sorry for the mis-information. Thanx for the correction , Timo and Trommel.
regards
A

[Reader3000]

Hey, Bayerlein spirit: The table yo found is not very correct: 12. SS-Panzerdivision did not have any StuG or StuH in it's units. There were just the mentioned Pz IV nad Panther in two Abteilung in the SS-Panzerregiment 12. In addition to these Panzers they had some Jagdpanzer IV in the Panzerjägerabteilung.

[Trommelfeuer]

Hmmm...what about these tables:

source
Ian Gooderson's 'Air Power at the Battlefront', London 1998
http://rhino.shef.ac.uk:3001/mr-home/hobbies/rocket.txt


40 german various vehicles / weapons lost in LA BALEINE.

132 german various vehicles / weapons lost in the MORTAIN AREA,

885 german armored vehicles lost in the FALAISE 'POCKET'.

82 german armored vehicles lost in the 'SHAMBLES' AREA.

98 german armored vehicles lost in the'CHASE' AREA.

..some 1237 armored vehicles lost....

Don't know if this source can be trusted, but please have a look, it's a "case study"...

With friendly greetings, Sven

P.S. 2 500 total german tank losses in Normandy sound a bit exaggerated to me, too.
(But hey, I wasn't there, perhaps it was like this...)

The retreat to the Seine clearly reveals the limitations of Allied
air-to-ground weapons against tanks, particularly the 3-inch rocket.
Only ten out of 301 tanks and SP guns examined, and three out of 87
armoured troop carriers examined, were found to have been destroyed by
this weapon - these figures must be compared with 222 claims of armour
destruction made by Typhoon pilots alone.

[- Barbarossa Isegrim -]

40 german various vehicles / weapons lost in LA BALEINE.

132 german various vehicles / weapons lost in the MORTAIN AREA,

885 german armored vehicles lost in the FALAISE 'POCKET'.

82 german armored vehicles lost in the 'SHAMBLES' AREA.

98 german armored vehicles lost in the'CHASE' AREA.

..some 1237 armored vehicles lost....

Great data Trommelfauer, but notice that the "Falaise pocket`s" 885 "armored vehicles" include 701 softskin vehicles as well... the number of armored vehicles lost is 133. The complicate things more, I believe the term probably contains the armored Hanomags as well...

So the total number for Arm. vehicles lost is more like 536 in the Falaise pocket, probably including the Hanomags as well. And provided this data is complete...

Too bad that forum I saw the 950 tank become Totalausfalles is down, it had it broken down by tank type...