Dug-in panzers in Berlin
- wartourist
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Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Hi,
During the Battle for Berlin, one of the rather desperate measures taken by the defenders was to place immobile tanks in dug-outs with only the turret visible. Such low-profile miniature forts were placed so they commanded (in theory, anyway) Soviet approach roads and road intersections.
I know of two examples: One tank was dug in at the Sophie-Charlotte-Platz in Charlottenburg, thus controlling the intersection between Kaiserdamm and Bismarckstrasse, a western approach to the Citadel.
Similarly, a tank was dug in at what is today the crossing Platz der Luftbruecke, Meringdamm, Columbia Damm. Here it controlled an intersection with five roads.
Both tanks were Panthers.
Anyone in this forum who knows how many panzers were used this way in Berlin and the location of some of these? And perhaps even have some idea of the kill ratio, they achieved?
Thanks
Dan
During the Battle for Berlin, one of the rather desperate measures taken by the defenders was to place immobile tanks in dug-outs with only the turret visible. Such low-profile miniature forts were placed so they commanded (in theory, anyway) Soviet approach roads and road intersections.
I know of two examples: One tank was dug in at the Sophie-Charlotte-Platz in Charlottenburg, thus controlling the intersection between Kaiserdamm and Bismarckstrasse, a western approach to the Citadel.
Similarly, a tank was dug in at what is today the crossing Platz der Luftbruecke, Meringdamm, Columbia Damm. Here it controlled an intersection with five roads.
Both tanks were Panthers.
Anyone in this forum who knows how many panzers were used this way in Berlin and the location of some of these? And perhaps even have some idea of the kill ratio, they achieved?
Thanks
Dan
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Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Dan, to help you in your researches the tanks belonged to "Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin". I can't tell youhow many tanks they had I'm afraid.
Alan
Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Hi Wrtourist,
Panzer.Kompanie. (bo) Berlin operated 12 dug in Pz.Kpfw.IV, as well as 10 dug in Panthers each manned by a
crew of three (no need for driver as they had no engines or road wheels).
Regards,
Simon
Panzer.Kompanie. (bo) Berlin operated 12 dug in Pz.Kpfw.IV, as well as 10 dug in Panthers each manned by a
crew of three (no need for driver as they had no engines or road wheels).
Regards,
Simon
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken Identification.
Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Hello
Found this in a Google Search for "Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin"
Regards
Kurt
kstdk
Found this in a Google Search for "Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin"
Regards
Kurt
kstdk
Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Thanks for the confirmaton Kurt
Kind Regards,
Simon
Kind Regards,
Simon
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken Identification.
- wartourist
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Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Alan, Simon, Kurt,
Thanks, this is great; I've got something to go by. I take a great interest in the Battle for Berlin and I'm trying to understand the measures of defense established by von Hauenschield, Reymann and Weidling. Many books describe the battle per se, but not in this detail. Gathering all available information; photos, eyewitness accounts and documents and mapping these, I aim (rather ambitiously, I know) to get a clearer picture of exactly what Festung Berlin looked like
Thanks again
Dan
Thanks, this is great; I've got something to go by. I take a great interest in the Battle for Berlin and I'm trying to understand the measures of defense established by von Hauenschield, Reymann and Weidling. Many books describe the battle per se, but not in this detail. Gathering all available information; photos, eyewitness accounts and documents and mapping these, I aim (rather ambitiously, I know) to get a clearer picture of exactly what Festung Berlin looked like
Thanks again
Dan
- wartourist
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Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Eureka! Stumbled over this: http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?p=118695
As far as my rather poor German can tell, it's all there. Including a map over the known placements of the tanks
Just in case others here may take an interest ...
Dan
As far as my rather poor German can tell, it's all there. Including a map over the known placements of the tanks
Just in case others here may take an interest ...
Dan
Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Hi Dan
Thanks for the link
Regards
Kurt
kstdk
Thanks for the link
Regards
Kurt
kstdk
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Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Gentlemen,
I too wondered how these dug-in panzers of Berlin performed. So far there is no account of the men who manned these panzers. I could only guess that the kill ratio of them were 65 percent high or more. The men had to perform pretty fast to score a lot of kills against Soviet armor. Who was the commander of "Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin"? And what is "bo"stands for?
Sincerely,
Edward L. Hsiao
I too wondered how these dug-in panzers of Berlin performed. So far there is no account of the men who manned these panzers. I could only guess that the kill ratio of them were 65 percent high or more. The men had to perform pretty fast to score a lot of kills against Soviet armor. Who was the commander of "Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin"? And what is "bo"stands for?
Sincerely,
Edward L. Hsiao
Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Hi,
"bo" = bodenstandige for static, or immobile.
Regards,
Rand
"bo" = bodenstandige for static, or immobile.
Regards,
Rand
- wartourist
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Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Edward,
I don't know who was the commander of Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin. The thread in Forum Panzer Archiv is more than 150 pages, and my German is not all that good
As to the kill-ratio, this is probably very difficult to establish, but Chuikov in his memoir admits to a loss of over 800 Russian tanks. Very many of those probably fell victim to the Panzerfaust, but it is a fair assumption that the dug-in tanks due to their strategic positioning and low profile also accounted for a fair share, at any rate more than their own modest number (22 total).
The wiki on Panther (turrets), which were used in many theaters of war, has this comment:
"From 1943, Panther turrets were mounted in fixed fortifications; some were normal production models, but most were made specifically for the task, with additional roof armor to withstand artillery. Two types of turret emplacements were used; (Pantherturm III - Betonsockel — concrete base) and (Pantherturm I - Stahluntersatz — steel sub-base). They housed ammunition storage and fighting compartment along with crew quarters. A total of 182 of these were installed in the fortifications of the Atlantic Wall and West Wall, 48 in the Gothic Line and Hitler Line, 36 on the Eastern Front, and two for training and experimentation, for a total of 268 installations by March 1945. They proved to be costly to attack, and difficult to destroy.[90]" [My italics]
Any further information on this would be very interesting
Dan
I don't know who was the commander of Panzer Kompanie (bo) Berlin. The thread in Forum Panzer Archiv is more than 150 pages, and my German is not all that good
As to the kill-ratio, this is probably very difficult to establish, but Chuikov in his memoir admits to a loss of over 800 Russian tanks. Very many of those probably fell victim to the Panzerfaust, but it is a fair assumption that the dug-in tanks due to their strategic positioning and low profile also accounted for a fair share, at any rate more than their own modest number (22 total).
The wiki on Panther (turrets), which were used in many theaters of war, has this comment:
"From 1943, Panther turrets were mounted in fixed fortifications; some were normal production models, but most were made specifically for the task, with additional roof armor to withstand artillery. Two types of turret emplacements were used; (Pantherturm III - Betonsockel — concrete base) and (Pantherturm I - Stahluntersatz — steel sub-base). They housed ammunition storage and fighting compartment along with crew quarters. A total of 182 of these were installed in the fortifications of the Atlantic Wall and West Wall, 48 in the Gothic Line and Hitler Line, 36 on the Eastern Front, and two for training and experimentation, for a total of 268 installations by March 1945. They proved to be costly to attack, and difficult to destroy.[90]" [My italics]
Any further information on this would be very interesting
Dan
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Re: Dug-in panzers in Berlin
Gentlemen,
I sometimes wonder if there was a individual case of a panzer turret commander that had destroyed ten or more Soviet tanks in a single day? Guess we will know for now. Action reports of panzer turrets in Berlin were not available which is too bad.
Sincerely,
Edward L. Hsiao
I sometimes wonder if there was a individual case of a panzer turret commander that had destroyed ten or more Soviet tanks in a single day? Guess we will know for now. Action reports of panzer turrets in Berlin were not available which is too bad.
Sincerely,
Edward L. Hsiao