Armour piercing Ammunition

[David W]

First of all, apologies if this question has been asked before.

I did search under "panzergranate" but came up with nothing.

When was PzGr.40 available in North Africa?
I am asking about 20mm, 37mm, 47mm, 50mm 75mm & 88mm. I understand that they might all have separate dates.

When was Gr.38Hl available in North Africa?
I am asking about 75mm & 76.2mm.

Also, what sort of quantities compared to PzGr.39?

Many thanks,
David.

[Marcus]

(Moved to the panzers section)

[Urmel]

Thanks Marcus!

[David W]

Yes, that might help, as it was going nowhere here!

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Do you need information specifically about North Africa, or would production numbers in general be of use?

[David W]

Hello Christian.

Specifically North Africa.
But production numbers for 1941/2, with some sort of comparison to the availability of PzGr. 39 would be useful.

Thanks.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

The German production reports are quite tedious to transscribe (each month takes one to two hours), but here is the army ammunition availability as of 1 November 1942. This does not include ammunition with the Luftwaffe, including most anti-aircraft artillery. I can find other months as well. I hope to eventually make a full list of tank and anti-tank gun ammunition for my website.

Numbers are in thousands.

20 mm

• 2 cm Pzgr Patr: 6720.6
• 2 cm Pzgr Patr 40: 5.6
• 2 cm Sprgr Patr: 6956.5
• 2 cm Brd Sprtr Patr: 20 682.6

37 mm

• Pzgr Patr 18 (3,7 cm Flak 18) and Sprgr Patr 18 (3,7 cm Flak 18): 633.7
• Pzgr Patr 18 (3,7 cm Kw K): 2743.0
• Pzgr Patr 40 (3,7 cm Kw K): 347.5
• Pzgr Patr (3,7 cm Pak) and Sprgr Patr (3,7 cm Pak): 15 137.4
• Pzgr Patr 30 (3,7 cm Pak): 795.5
• Stielgr 41 (3,7 cm Pak): 998.8

42 mm

• 4,2 cm Sprgr Patr 41 (4,2 cm Pak 41): 254.8
• 4,2 cm Pzgr Patr 41 (4,2 cm Pak 41): 173.7

50 mm

• Sprgr Patr 38 (5 cm Kw K): 1975.4
• Pzgr Patr (5 cm Kw K) and Pzgr Patr 39 (5 cm Kw K): 1950.1
• Pzgr Patr 40 (5 cm Kw K): 416.3
• Sprgr Patr 38 (5 cm Kw K 39 L/60): 835.2
• Pzgr Patr 39 (5 cm Kw K 39 L/60): 960.7
• Pzgr Patr 40 (5 cm Kw K 39 L/60): 58.4
• 5 cm Sprgr Patr 38 (Pak 38): 1093.7
• 5 cm Pzgr Patr (Pak 38) and 5 cm Pzgr Patr 39 (Pak 38): 1627.3
• 5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (Pak 38): 383.4
• 5 cm Stielgr 42: 0

75 mm

• 7,5 cm Kw K (all ammunition types): 2841.5
• 7,5 cm Sprgr Patr 34 (7,5 cm Kw K 40 and Stu K 40): 498.4
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl (7,5 cm Kw K 40 and Stu K 40): 412.8
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 39 (7,5 cm Kw K 40 and Stu K 40): 747.6
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (7,5 cm Kw K 40 and Stu K 40): 22.1
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr Nb (7,5 cm Kw K 40 and Stu K 40): 22.6
• 7,5 cm Sprgr Patr 42 (7,5 cm Kw K 42): 458.8
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 39/42 (7,5 cm Kw K 42): 341.9
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 40/42 (7,5 cm Kw K 42): 3.1
• 7,5 cm Sprgr Patr 34 (7,5 cm Pak 40): 533.1
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl (7,5 cm Pak 40): 917.6
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 39 (7,5 cm Pak 40): 945.3
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (7,5 cm Pak 40): 1.7
• 7,5 cm K Gr rot Nb (7,5 cm Pak 40): 30.3
• 7,5 cm Sprgr Patr 41 (7,5 cm Pak 41): 25.2
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 41 H K (7,5 cm Pak 41): 63.3
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 41 St K (7,5 cm Pak 41): 0
• 7.5 cm Pzgr Patr (W) (7,5 cm Pak 41): 0
• Sprgr Patr für Pak 97/38: 5612.9
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr Hl für 7,5 cm Pak 97/38: 1464.9
• 7,5 cm Rf K 43: 0

76.2 mm

• 7,62 cm Sprgr Patr 39 (7,62 cm Pak 36 and F K 39): 1042.4
• 7,62 cm Pzgr Patr 39 rot (7,62 cm Pak 36 and F K 39): 476.5
• 7,62 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (7,62 cm Pak 36 and F K 39): 77.8

88 mm

• Pzgr Patr (8,8 cm Flak 18) and Sprgr Patr L/4,5 (kz) (8,8 cm Flak 18): 173.7
• Sprgr Patr (8,8 cm Kw K 36): 689.8
• Pzgr Patr 39 (8,8 cm Kw K 36): 196.4
• Pzgr Patr 40 (8,8 cm Kw K 36): 5.1
• Gr Patr Hl (8,8 cm Kw K 36): 52.3
• 8,8 cm Sprgr Patr L/4,7 Kz (8,8 cm Kw K 43): 457.2
• 8,8 cm Pzgr Patr 39 (8,8 cm Kw K 43): 309.5
• 8,8 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (8,8 cm Kw K 43): 0
• 8,8 cm Hl Gr (8,8 cm Kw K 43): 4
• 8,8 cm R Pz B: 3.7
• 8,8 cm R W: 0

[David W]

Thank you.

I'm still interested in when each type was available, but appreciate the workload that would be for you in this format.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

If you're not in a hurry, I can prioritize the ammunition table? It is an interesting question, and one I'd like some hard facts on myself, as the constant claims of APCR ammunition making German guns into superguns seems largely to be based outside reality.

[David W]

I am not in a hurry. So anything at any time in the future would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you Christian.

[Yoozername]

That is an amazing snap-shot in time. I just wonder if that date is correct? 1 November 1942? could it possibly be 1944? The Panther and 88mm numbers stand out.

[Grzesio]

And November 1942 seems too early for 8.8 cm RPzB (i.e. Panzerschreck) and 8,8 cm RW (i.e. Pueppchen) ammunition too (the latter was not available in quantity for already delivered launchers till early 1944, so 0 is quite reasonable here ).

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

The numbers are from 1 November 1942. It was quite common that ammunition was listed in the production reports as a placeholder long before any ammunition reached the troops.

[Yoozername]

This is some great information. So many things bring a different insight into not just the ammunition,but the state of the weapons and usage.

Just a quick thought is the amount of Panther AP ammunition to Tiger I ammunition. The Tiger I is a moving, shooting, fighting, front line unit(s). The Panther won't fight for more than a half year!

Another...Stielgr 41 (3,7 cm Pak): 998.8! (and they made more?)

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

I have progressed to February 1943 in the production reports, which is sufficient to answer the question about when this ammunition was first available in general. Below is the months at which the ammunition was first listed in the German Army inventory. Note that ammunition was usually accepted by Waffenamt inspectors several months before it became available to the army, as it first had to be assembled and accepted by the Feldzeug-Inspektion (quartermaster's office). Ammunition names are stylized for ease of reading. I have not included ammunition types not available by February 1943.

• 2 cm Pzgr Patr 40: August 1941
• 2,8 cm Pzgr Patr 41: September 1940
• 3,7 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Kw K: No later than September 1940*
• 3,7 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Pak: September 1940
• 3,7 cm Stiel-Granate 41: March 1942
• 3,7 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (t): April 1941
• 4,7 cm Pzgr Patr 40 (t): November 1941
• 5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Kw K: March 1941
• 5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Kw K 39: April 1942
• 5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Pak 38: March 1941
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Pak 40: January 1943
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl Pak 40: August 1942
• 7,5 cm Pzgr Patr 41 H K: July 1942
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl Pak 97/38: June 1942
• 7,5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl Kw K 40: August 1942**
• 7,62 cm Pzgr Patr 40: May 1942
• 8,8 cm Pzgr Patr 40 Kw K 36: January 1943

* Was grouped with other types before this month.
** Also used for Stu K 40