12. SS Normandy Panther Colors

[Miles Krogfus]

The 1978 Kompanie-Kameradschaft "Die 3. Kompanie" of SS-Pz.Rgt. 12 book given me by its CO, Rudolf von Ribbentrop, has a number of photos of its Panthers in their Normandy colors. Panther 304, 305, 315, 326 in RAL 7028 dunkelgelb (actually a 7000 series gray) with spring green camo overspray and white outline numbers. Later, 12 SS Panthers were painted black between these white outlines . . . NEVER did any 12 SS tanks have red numbers. I have discussed panzer paint schemes and number colors with vets of the 1. SS, 2. SS, 3. SS, 5. SS, 12. SS, and all SS Tiger units . . . Plus paint distribution documents show when various units received camo colors. Books that display colors that do not match Panzer reality are numerous. . .

[Panther Arthur]

Hello Miles,

I had suspected this for some time-the "red" that is illustrated in profiles within books erroneously is actually black.

Bright or even light red would be painting a target on one of the weakest points on the Panther's armour, the turret side.

Arthur

[Miles Krogfus]

In 1943 and 1944, since German studies had showed what colors could be seen by friendly nearby armor but not spotted by more distant unfriendly forces, easy to spot red was NOT to be used on AFV, BUT since blue was not made adequately available, some units, if they had red paint around, might use it. From the summer of 1944 black with white outlines was to be used on ALL AFV. 12 SS panzers obeyed, but the 101/501 SS Tiger Abt. continued to use blue not black between its white or yellow number outlines. Certain units used blue from the summer of 1943 but later black, being a more available color to combat units, was much more used after it became "official."

[rolfi]

Miles
I'm intrigued by your stating that some units used blue for "Turmnummer". Could you elaborate?

RW

[Miles Krogfus]

RAL 5001 blue's limited supply to Panzers caused this color only to appear from the summer of 1943 on some units as Das Reich, but even were seen in 1944, as The 101 SS and 502 Tiger Abt's reveal. Numbers on their Tigers were blue with white outlines, then 501 SS blue with yellow outlines. Black with white outline numbers were ordered for all units from mid June 1944, but 502 Tigers were already painted. Other colors were used by some Panzer battalions in 1944-1945 for various reasons besides supply situations. I will make some future posts concerning colors on Panzers, based on my collection of unit's paint supply and use documents, production dates of armor and arrival dates at battalions, also when these units lacked paint deliveries and so lacked "official" colors for use, photos, info from vets (their memories are less reliable than documents).

[shane1967]

Hi Miles

Fascinating material and I look forward to more information.

My particular area of interest is Afrika Korps tanks, also a subject generally portrayed with red outlined numbers. My research in British intelligence reports shows only black numbers reported, however, these reports were made in 1942 and I have been unable to find any references to turret number colours in the 1941 reports.

cheers

Shane Lovell
Canberra, Australia

[uhu]

I only heard of this once from a good neighbor who was "Panzerkommandant" on the Eastern Front. He mentioned that they would use spray paint powered by the tank's (Panther) compressor to change paint in the field. He indicated they weren't very careful about exact colors at all, any mix as long as it did the job.

[Miles Krogfus]

The second RAL dunkelgelb was RAL 7028.

[mark67]

RAL 501 blue's limited supply to Panzers caused this color only to appear from the summer of 1943 (...).

Which RAL blue? Number 501 missed one last digit I presume?

Marek

[Miles Krogfus]

RAL 5001 used for Das Reich Panthers summer 1943, 101/501 SS Tigers, 502 Abt. Tigers summer 1944, 653rd Ferdinands July 1943 etc. The Head of the RAL lent me the only copy of the old color register a quarter of a century ago, and I compared the RAL colors in it with the then current versions of these RAL numbers.