Early HEAT Ammunition

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Kawinksy
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#76

Post by Kawinksy » 28 Dec 2016, 00:45

Yoozername wrote:This is from the German document from Feb 1943 regarding the 7,5 cm KWK L24. I would assume that it is HL/B...HL is HEAT and SP is HE.
You have assumed correct. Have a look on the next page, the back cover of the leaflet usually mention the ammo types in use:

Pz = 7.5 cm Pzrg Patr KwK
Hl = 7.5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl/A KwK and 7.5 cm Gr Patr 38 Hl/B KwK
Sp = eingeführte Sprgr Patr

And they note: "For HL Granades no ranges are given, as under normal circumstances, any black marked areas could be penetrated up to 1500m, but in combat, a potential hit at range would be many times lesser, since visibility and the distraction due to enemy action would considerably decrease the probability."

Yoozername
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#77

Post by Yoozername » 15 Jan 2017, 20:40

This colored video of late war footage seems to show a short barreled Soviet weapon but they are using a long cased ammunition. The troops are seen using a Soviet AA gun also? Also dragging along a captured Soviet MG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZv575a ... Zv575aRhQY[/youtube]


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Mobius
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#78

Post by Mobius » 25 Mar 2019, 05:02

Here is the earliest 75mm Gr. Patr Hl that I've found.
The original document is:
H. Dv. 481/57 19.10.39
But as can be seen it has the inscription of:
Bg. 28.2.41 S
So it is updated.

7,5 cm Gr. Patr. 38 Kw.K.

It seems to have the form as the Gr. Patr. Hl/A.
The weight is shown as 4.4 kg. the same weight as the Hl/A.
75mm Gr Patr 38.jpg
75mm Gr Patr 38.jpg (140.53 KiB) Viewed 1880 times

Peasant
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#79

Post by Peasant » 19 Aug 2023, 20:54

I think this belongs here.
It seems that there is contradicting information on penetration of this shell, I've seen sources claim 90mm/30° or 100mm/30°, but from this test it seems that 90mm/30°is the correct value.

Image

Ghostmaxi
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#80

Post by Ghostmaxi » 20 Aug 2023, 00:09

Peasant wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 20:54
I think this belongs here.
It seems that there is contradicting information on penetration of this shell, I've seen sources claim 90mm/30° or 100mm/30°, but from this test it seems that 90mm/30°is the correct value.

Image
But the picture sayes 95 to 100mm/30°?

Peasant
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#81

Post by Peasant » 20 Aug 2023, 07:30

Ghostmaxi wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 00:09

But the picture sayes 95 to 100mm/30°?
German values show the minimum, not the average value.

Yoozername
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#82

Post by Yoozername » 20 Aug 2023, 08:31

HL/C used that early?

Peasant
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#83

Post by Peasant » 20 Aug 2023, 08:58

Yoozername wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 08:31
HL/C used that early?
Gotta be. Soviet testing has shown that 15% more thickness is enough to be safe from German HEAT shells. If this were a 7.5cm HL/B shell, at least 86mm/30° would've been enough to provide reliable protection.

Ghostmaxi
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#84

Post by Ghostmaxi » 21 Aug 2023, 12:14

Peasant wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 07:30
Ghostmaxi wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 00:09

But the picture sayes 95 to 100mm/30°?
German values show the minimum, not the average value.
But minimum is minimum and average should be above the minimum, or else it wouldnt be a minimum?

Peasant
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#85

Post by Peasant » 21 Aug 2023, 13:09

Yoozername wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 08:31
HL/C used that early?
This is an english translation from a German document dated Dec 1942. This might've been a testing of pre-production lot of 7.5cm HL/C shells.
I guess, it might be possible that this shell does actually pen 100mm/30°, as there might've been some minor adjustments to the design and quality control that left pass in service only shells that satisfy the requirement of perforating 100mm/30° target.
Ghostmaxi wrote:
21 Aug 2023, 12:14
Peasant wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 07:30
Ghostmaxi wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 00:09

But the picture sayes 95 to 100mm/30°?
German values show the minimum, not the average value.
But minimum is minimum and average should be above the minimum, or else it wouldnt be a minimum?
If we assume that 90mm/30° is the minimum, 95-100mm/30° would be the average. Don't you agree?
Last edited by Peasant on 21 Aug 2023, 13:10, edited 1 time in total.

Ghostmaxi
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#86

Post by Ghostmaxi » 21 Aug 2023, 14:24

German values show the minimum, not the average value.
[/quote]
But minimum is minimum and average should be above the minimum, or else it wouldnt be a minimum?
[/quote]

If we assume that 90mm/30° is the minimum, 95-100mm/30° would be the average. Don't you agree?
[/quote]

Oh, my bad, i understood that the 95-100 is the minimum

Peasant
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#87

Post by Peasant » 21 Aug 2023, 15:06

No, you're probably right, since this data comes from a german document and I was wrong bc I didn't see that, thought this was americans testing captured German shells.

Ghostmaxi
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#88

Post by Ghostmaxi » 25 Sep 2023, 07:29

Peasant wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 20:54
I think this belongs here.
It seems that there is contradicting information on penetration of this shell, I've seen sources claim 90mm/30° or 100mm/30°, but from this test it seems that 90mm/30°is the correct value.

Image
May i have the Source to that? It seems interesting to read.

Peasant
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#89

Post by Peasant » 25 Sep 2023, 14:00

Ghostmaxi wrote:
25 Sep 2023, 07:29

May i have the Source to that? It seems interesting to read.
Sure: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0091301.pdf

Yoozername
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Re: Early HEAT Ammunition

#90

Post by Yoozername » 25 Sep 2023, 22:26

The HL/C had a Zinc alloy liner? I thought all HL used soft iron. But, it may be why the penetration improved. likewise, the Germans liked the PK Klein, and improved its liner to keep it in service. Pretty sure PF 30/60/100 used soft iron liners.

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