Christian Tychsen's command tanks

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Sauerkraut
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Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#1

Post by Sauerkraut » 18 Feb 2017, 22:31

Hi all!

I want to paint a western front Christian Tychsen's command tank scale model, as on the pictures.
I have not decided yet, will it be with or without the schurzen. Anyway, I have a few questions to which I couldn't find answers on these pictures:

-Is it correct to assume that the Panzerbefehlswagen III is with a L42 gun? Is that a Ausf.J?

-About the one with schurzen :
in the french magazine Batailles&Blindés, two issues show different markings on the turret: always with "karracho", but with and without the "B11" on the back of the side (in the rounded part). Should the markings be the same on both side? Should there be a B11 on the back of the turret?
As for the colors I know it should be yellow RAL7028, but is that with RAL6003 green "stripes" or with brown RAL8017? Or both green and brown? The Batailles&Blindés drawings shows yellow and green, but on the black and white picture it is not obvious...

-About the one (I assume it is one, since the two photos are supposed to be from spring 1943) without schurzen, what color should it be? I suppose one tone, but I'm not sure, and anyway is that grey RAL7021 or yellow RAL7028? Since Batailles&Blindés special issue number31 about 1st 2nd and 3rd SS-Panzer Regiments states in page 52that by that time "The new panzers arrived from the factory painted in RAL7028, but those already in use in the regiment got rid of their winter camouflage and painted in RAL7028 or, for some, in RAL7021 depending on the available paint." And should there be a B11 marking on the back of the turret?

About Tychsen's tanks at other moments of the war, is there any pictures or informations about his Befehlspanther in Normandy? I only know it was marked number 99, but I don't know wether or not he had kept the writing "karracho", what camouflage it was painted in, what Ausf. it was...

In Batailles&Blindés n.65 about Christian Tychsen on page 11 there is a drawing of a Panzerbefehlswagen III Ausf.H, allegedly his personnal tank in Soviet Union, in october 1942. But considering at that time Tychsen was not on the front (in may 1942 he went back to Germany to teach in Braunschweig SS-Junkerschule while healing after a wound, in september got promoted to SS-Sturmbannführer and in october was designated to command the II. Abteilung and went to Wünsdorf panzertruppen school until november... Moreover Das Reich went back to Soviet Union only in early 1943), there is obviously a mistake. Couldn't that Befehlspanzer be his command vehicle in the Kradschützen-Bataillon?

Many thanks to anyone who could provide an answer to any of those questions!
Attachments
Christian Tychsen congratulates his company commander at Kursk 1943 panzer iii graffiti.jpg
tychsen_tank.jpg
Christian Tychsen tank panzer commander1.jpg

Sauerkraut
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#2

Post by Sauerkraut » 02 Apr 2017, 17:09

I found the answer to the qustion about Tychsen's Panther in Normandy, it was a Panzerbefehlswagen V ausf. A, with zimmerit, a drawing of it can be found in the book (in french) "Panzers Normandie 44 series - SS Paner Regiment 2 DR", Stephan Cazenaves, Maranes éditions.


Sauerkraut
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#3

Post by Sauerkraut » 14 Apr 2017, 21:46

According to the polish "milataria" series (book 221 "SS division das Reich"), "the one without schurzen" should be grey. Though the drawing in this book shows a panzer III Ausf. J, I think it is actually a Panzerbefehlswagen, since there is antenna support on the photo.

Sauerkraut
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#4

Post by Sauerkraut » 16 Apr 2017, 03:55

photo
Attachments
KB_Gronert_173 (1).jpg

Sauerkraut
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#5

Post by Sauerkraut » 16 Apr 2017, 04:01

better quality
Attachments
KB_Gronert_174.jpg

Miles Krogfus
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#6

Post by Miles Krogfus » 13 Jun 2017, 01:38

Das Reich panzers were painted RAL 8020 with RAL 7027 mottling in 1942 when off to Russia, then winter white added for Charkow. Tychsen's Befehlswagen's skirts at Kursk were RAL 7028 with RAL 6003 mottling. The panzer's body and skirts are not completely shown in the above photo, so we cannot tell if RAL 8017 brown was also used to mottle it. His tank in Normandy was a base RAL 7028.
Note that RAL 7027 and 7028 are very close in appearance, so gazing at color or b&w photos from the WW II period makes it difficult to tell these colors apart.
Also note the back of the Dunkelgelb nach Muster third sample that I post, showing how that color looked lighter when brush or spray applied in the field compared to the darker look of DG nach M applied at the factory.
With the RAL 8020 and 7027 sample, I added smaller samples of the green RAL 6003 and brown RAL 8017 colors used to mottle Das Reich armor for Kursk along with DG nach M that could also be used for mottling RAL 8020 and appears a bit lighter than it.
Attachments
6050 001.jpg
RAL 8020 x 001.jpg
RAL 7028 001.jpg
Last edited by Miles Krogfus on 13 Jun 2017, 07:42, edited 8 times in total.

Miles Krogfus
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Posts: 474
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#7

Post by Miles Krogfus » 13 Jun 2017, 02:15

Dunkelgelb nach Muster was the 1943 Dark Yellow factory base color for Panzers until TL 6321 was issued 1 April 1943. Factories received this TL in 2/3 weeks but could use up their supplies of nach Muster before using RAL 7028 starting in late May/early June 1943. See the above sample of both Dark Yellows. 7028 is actually in the RAL 7000 series of grays . . .
Attachments
TL 6321 001.jpg

shane1967
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#8

Post by shane1967 » 16 Jun 2017, 08:37

Hi Miles

You have arrived at some very interesting conclusions. What tanks are you suggesting were covered - Pz II - Tiger 1 within the Das Reich inventory? What Das Reich specific evidence led you to your conclusions?

I look forward to your response

Shane Lovell
Canberra, Australia

Miles Krogfus
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Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#9

Post by Miles Krogfus » 16 Jun 2017, 21:01

I especially concentrated in my 1 SS, 2 SS and 3 SS 1942-1943 paint schemes info collecting on Panzer III to Tigers. I will be posting further details concerning the painting of Das Reich Panzer AG's and Tiger I's 1942-1943 and an accurate drawing of the Tiger Company's Kursk era emblem. I have distribution records with dates when the SS divisions got both paint supplies and armor plate skirts for Kursk. As regards photos, we have seen many more published ones (some dated) of Das Reich AG and Tigers (as Tiki) than of Panzer III in the spring/summer 1943 that help to see their old and new mottling and date when crews added/changed colors. Other unpublished photos and info concerning these matters I received from Das Reich vets . . .

Miles Krogfus
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Posts: 474
Joined: 08 May 2015, 20:54
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#10

Post by Miles Krogfus » 18 Jun 2017, 22:50

The first attachment shows two photos of Das Reich AG. The second Attachment has three photos showing: at the top Das Reich AG's in the Charkow area, then a color photo taken at Aberdeen on the arrival there of an AG from another unit with its RAL 8020 mottled with RAL 7027 then a B&W version of this photo.
Attachments
Das Reich AG 2 001.jpg
das reich ag 001.jpg

Sauerkraut
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Location: France

Re: Christian Tychsen's command tanks

#11

Post by Sauerkraut » 09 Jul 2017, 01:57

Does anyone have hints about the markings?

Looking at pictures from other DR tanks, I can only make suppositions:
Were there any markings on the turret under the schurzen (B11, Karracho...)? Logically, not if the tank was painted with the schurzen on, but if they were delivered after the tank was painted, it doesn't seem impossible.

Possibly Swastika in white circle on Rommelkiste for identification from the air:
14267585577_21610a533d_o.jpg
On the hull - the Das Reich Zitadelle tactical sign might be (or not be!) either on the right or left side, on mud guard or on Vorpanzer... On the back of the hull there might be that tactical sign, and a perhaps a balkenkreuz.

By the way, should there be green mottling on the hull? I don't know what unit this tank is, but it seems like only the schurzen and turret cuppola where mottled.
KB_Buschel_211.jpg
I observe different hull schurzen - with and without the smaller front part that can be seen on the second photo. Can it be found out, what "type" is more likely to have been on this tank?
pz3k0.jpg
Panzer_III_ausf_M_tank_with_schurzen.jpg

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