King Tiger's turret: what's this? (see pic for details)

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
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Ostpanzer
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King Tiger's turret: what's this? (see pic for details)

#1

Post by Ostpanzer » 20 Oct 2004, 17:40

Subj
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Ome_Joop
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#2

Post by Ome_Joop » 20 Oct 2004, 23:44

It looks like a resting place for the gun (it's a perfect fit) when on transport!


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Ostpanzer
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#3

Post by Ostpanzer » 21 Oct 2004, 04:04

Ome_Joop wrote:It looks like a resting place for the gun (it's a perfect fit) when on transport!
I'm don't think so.
Just take a look at the rotation angle of second Tiger's device.

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Alex Pitolin
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#4

Post by Alex Pitolin » 21 Oct 2004, 04:05

Ome_Joop are you shure in it?

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Stormbird
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#5

Post by Stormbird » 21 Oct 2004, 06:48

Yes i'm sure its a gun rest too, seen them before on another king tiger pic (will see if i can find). The idea of it is to hold the gun for transport but once unloaded it is removed as it limits the field of fire when installed. These have been removed and have been tied/ fixed to the side of the turret, hence the angle of the second one. When istalled they are fixed to the rear of the tank somewhere in the area of the engine grills the turret is then rotated and the barrel made to rest in the groove then is tied down.

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#6

Post by LeoIIA6 » 05 Nov 2004, 17:46

Hi!
i think in same way like Stormbird!
it´s to towed the gun on railshipping. gun is at 6 o´clock and it would towed with these plates. because the kingtiger is to long, with gun at 12o´clock and they must transport it with gun at 6 o´clock.
the leopard 2A6 is railshipping in same way, because the gun is too long for shipping at 12.
regards and sorry for bad english

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#7

Post by Ome_Joop » 06 Nov 2004, 11:19

Image

Ok it's a Tiger I with it's gun positioned at 6 o'clock!
I think the same problem shows with the Tiger II it's gun would stick out to much on the aft side so i don't think that it would be common practice to put it at 6 o'clock!
This is thanks to the possition of the turret!

i've seen pics somewere of a few Tiger II on transport i think and they were somewhat like these Panthers...
Image

Seems to be common practice in the german army to put the gun at 12 o'clock!
Image

http://www.dampflokomotiven-dr.de/html/baureihen.html

BTW someone notice that the Tiger at the first pic doesn't have transport tracks?
Seems to fit on the railcar so why does a Tiger need special tracks for transport?!

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#8

Post by Xavier » 06 Nov 2004, 17:40

BTW someone notice that the Tiger at the first pic doesn't have transport tracks?
Seems to fit on the railcar so why does a Tiger need special tracks for transport?!
Tiger I's, and II's with combat tracks exceded width of normal railcars, and had to be fitted with normal transport tracks when tunnels or obstructions were expected on the journey, mostly on western front.

If you have travelled by rail, I know you have noticed how close the tunel walls are sometimes to the train.. :wink:

best regards

Xavier
Instandsetzungtrüppfuhrer

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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#9

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 06 Nov 2004, 19:17

The picture of the Pz.Kpfw.IVs show the position of the internal travel lock. Also, there was usually no reason to put the turret of the Pz.Kpfw.IV or Pz.Kpfw.Panther at 6 o'clock, since the turret was pretty much centered on the vehicle.

Christian

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bryson109
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#10

Post by bryson109 » 06 Nov 2004, 22:04

The King Tiger turret was in the 12 o'clock position during transport.

From: The King Tiger vol.II / Wolfgang Schneider
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#11

Post by cbo » 07 Nov 2004, 20:46

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:The picture of the Pz.Kpfw.IVs show the position of the internal travel lock. Also, there was usually no reason to put the turret of the Pz.Kpfw.IV or Pz.Kpfw.Panther at 6 o'clock, since the turret was pretty much centered on the vehicle.

Christian
This is actaully a bit odd. IIRC both the Panzer IV, Panther and Tiger I & II had internal travel locks for the gun and the Panther was the only one to have a fixed, external lock as well (why?). Why would the Tiger II need a removable, external travel lock like the one apparently seen on the photo?
All pictures I can recall of Tiger IIs travelling either by road or by rail does not show this device in use and I've looked at a bunch of Tiger II pictures and only this one actually shows the device - and only on some of the tanks. If it was something you would commonly use, then one would think you'd see it in use more often?

Looking at Tiger IIs travelling on the road or on rail-cars, it would seem, that once the internal lock was engaged, the weapon would be in a rather elevated position, as you can see on the first picture. My guess would be, that in some cases, you would need the gun to rest in a lowered position and in order not to damage the elevation gears, a temporary rest would be used like in the attached picture.

Anyway, I came across one picture which appears to show something like this "gun lock" (perhaps rather a gun rest) in use. It seems to be resting on the ball mount, supporting the gun.

Claus B
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#12

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 07 Nov 2004, 20:51

Claus, that seems like a reasonable explanation. It would certainly explain why the metal pieces are mounted in different ways on the two Tiger IIs.

Christian

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#13

Post by cbo » 07 Nov 2004, 20:55

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:Claus, that seems like a reasonable explanation. It would certainly explain why the metal pieces are mounted in different ways on the two Tiger IIs.

Christian
Are we shure they were metal? The one in the last picture looks more like a big chunk of wood, I think?

Claus B

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#14

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 07 Nov 2004, 20:58

Merely an assumption, but obviously they would be made from whatever material was available.

Christian

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Sander D
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#15

Post by Sander D » 08 Nov 2004, 19:27

Claus wrote :
I came across one picture which appears to show something like this "gun lock"
Here are 2 other pictures concearning this "gun lock"
One picture showes a Pzkpw VI B porsche and the other a tiger I with a wooden gun lock.

The pzkpw VI B picture was posted some time a go this the forum,can't recall who posted it.

Regards

Sander
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