Vehicle identity requests

[Piotr Mikołajski]

This is photo of the car owned / used by Polish Consulate in Allenstein (Olsztyn). Unfortunately I'm not able to identify type, it's hard to set timeframe too. Józef Gieburowski, Polish consule present on this photo, was on diplomatic mission in East Prussia from 1920 to 1934 or 1935.

[Piotr Mikołajski]

Third batch of photos, this time unknown type of city bus used in Kraków (then Krakau, capitol of puppet-state General Gouvernment). Photos were made in April 1943, bus has side number 110 and registration "Ost 12358" from GG. The most interesting thing is trailer with the Holzgas generator.

[peeved]

Hi Piotr,

The 3rd batch bus is a Chevrolet very similar to the ones used in e.g. Warsaw pre-war.

Regards,
Markus

[Piotr Mikołajski]

Thanks Markus. It means that this is Chevrolet 183 EFD (Warsaw citizens called them "Chevrolet Bielany"), built in Poland by Lilpop, Rau & Loewenstein workshops. I was fooled by driver's doors which seems to be a little bit different on photos above from this pre-war photo from Warsaw.

Narodowe Archiwum Cyfrowe, 1-G-3857

I've found additional info: body of the bus was manufactured by Zakłady Przemysłowe "Bielany" S.A. in Warsaw. Has 26 seats and place for 7 standing passengers. Doors were open with both hands by the passengers. Warsaw public transport company started to operate the first one in July 12th, 1937 and within two years Autobusy Miejskie company (City Buses) operated 60 EFD 183 and 72 buses of other manufacturers.

Buses for Kraków were delivered from Warsaw and were owned earlier by City Buses company. In Kraków these buses were rebuild to be powered by Holzgas generator in trailer or inside the bus behind the driver. Another modification were accomodation to be powered by propane-butane gas stored compressed in cylinders.

From at least 60 buses only three survived the war. It seems that some of them could be handed over / confiscated by military units.

[Hans 1942]

Hi Piotr,

1. Mercedes-Benz Lo 3750.

Regards
Andrej

[peeved]

Hi Piotr,

N:o 2 maybe a Dodge. Cf. http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/f143 ... -22216.jpg

Markus

[Bill Murray]

Hi Piotr:

I believe the sedan is possibly a Chrysler Imperial of about 1929 and I have attached a photo here.

Regarding the bus question, I do not want to make a political statement here, but I would imagine it could at least be possible that the passengers were on a journey they may not have wanted to make. Only a couple of men in uniform around the photo, but everyone seems to have a lot of luggage. This was not a trip to your place of work or office. Just an idea.

Bill

[Piotr Mikołajski]

Mercedes-Benz Lo 3750.

Thanks Andrej, it fits perfectly to the entry at the Holger's site.

N:o 2 maybe a Dodge. Cf.

It fits me a little bit better than Chrysler Imperial 1929 which seems to have longer wheelbase.

I do not want to make a political statement here, but I would imagine it could at least be possible that the passengers were on a journey they may not have wanted to make.

Bill, personally I don't think so for many reasons.

1. This photo had to be made in autumn 1939 or in the very early 1940 (less possible). Germans removed Polish names of offices etc. quite fast and on this photo there is still Polish name of post office (main post office in Lublin). Weather is good and it's still quite warm - September and October 1939 were warm.

2. At that time there were no forced resettlement actions yet. Roundup actions were performed with trucks and large amount of heavily armed military police soldiers. Here are two RAD members armed with side weapons kept in holsters.

3. Look at photo below - it seems that this bus arrived with some German officials with their wives - they are pointed with orange lines. Coats, suits, ties, hats - they look slightly different than other people on pavement. Only two very lightly armed RAD members (pointed with red lines) and no soldiers, police etc. Guy on the roof looks like unloading luggage. Last but not least - I've pointed with green two ladies which are looking like home servants - older housekeeper and young maid - both with headkerchiefs.

[Bill Murray]

Hi Piotr:

Regarding the automobile, my reasoning was that it was most not likely a Dodge but a Chrysler because at the Diplomatic level, the "Big Guys" usually got the best. In the case of Poland, that same website has photos of such people in Cadillac and Lincoln cars, for example. It may be that the model is more likely to be a Chrysler 80 than an Imperial and the 80 was a slightly smaller vehicle. But then again, I can always be wrong

As to the bus passengers, I did not read your original comment correctly perhaps. I do not think that the RP would have offered this type of bus transport to ordinary Polish citizens at the time the photo was taken. But......your observation that they may have been minor diplomats, civil service people and the like, most likely Germans, is probably valid.

Regards,

Bill

[einheitsdiesel]

Hello all

I found a interesting pic in ebay. In one way a well known typ but in the other way a unknown typ.

I think its clear shown a Einheitsdiesel, but I never saw on pics a company sign on the radiator. Here its "MAN Diesel"

Is this a export to one of the axis states? For me its a unknown car-plate too!

Who get informations? Hans whats about you ?

best regards
Henning

Hello Henning,

The car is a Einheitsdiesel ( l.E.Lkw ) and indeed the photo is from such a Einheitsdiesel delivered to Bulgaria!

On my photos you see the MAN own factory magazine from 10/1939 called MAN Lastwagen Nachrichten, good to see is that the nearest chassis, loaded with ballast, is being "road"tested on rollers!
The second page of the magazine is very interesting also.....in the text we can read that MAN speaks about a order from the Bulgarion "Kriegsministerium" from more than 160 Off-Road " M.A.N "- Diesel-Lastwagen.

Kind Regards Hans Rinsma

[s.pak]

Hi Bill, hi all, What a thread! so many strange concoctions and so many good answers! If sorted it would make a good book don't you think?
I wondered if some kind soul could identify this car? It's outside the Brasserie Weber in rue Royal, Paris 8eme... Someone knew where to eat!

Cu Car outside Cafe Weber copy.jpg

Sorry for the delay, I had not seen this post.

This car is not Delahaye, Delage or Hotchkiss, but this is nevertheless a French car, one rare Talbot Minor (1938/39)

regards, Patrick

[Hans 1942]

Hi Patrick,

Talbot T 120 (1936).

Regards
Andrej

[Bill Murray]

Thank you Patrick as always for your expertise and for correcting my identification of that beautiful French car.

I am aware of the marque Talbot, but I did not think it when trying to identify the photo.

Regards
Bill

[Piotr Mikołajski]

Hi Bill,

I think that Polish consul in East Prussia was not very big fish. But you are right about the best cars - from what I see in pre-war photos of Allenstein, this car probably was above average. Unfortunately none of these types are available as model kits so this part of history of my city have to wait

Regards,

Piotr

[Bill Murray]

Hi Piotr:

Well, we may never know the exact vehicle, but I am still fairly certain it is at least a product of the Chrysler Corporation.

I do not want to go too far off the topic here, but do I understand you are thinking of modelling parts of your city during WWII?? That would be quite an interesting project I think.

Sadly, I can tell you as more or less an expert, I have owned a HobbyTown USA franchise in the US for over 20 years and I do know a lot about what models are available, that the only Chrysler products you can obtain in plastic models from that era are 1932 Chrysler Imperial models and they are either convertible sedans or 2 door cabriolets and do not look at all like your photo.

That idea got me to thinking about trying to model my home city. HA..... I was born in Beijing China in 1940 and trying to model the Forbidden City and the Legation Quarter where I lived for my first 8 months would be almost impossible.
The cars and trucks of the time I could probably manage, mainly Ford and Chevrolet models from the late 1930's and one can purchase model kits of the ubiquitous rickshaw taxi but the buildings would be very difficult.

Regards

Bill