My questions regarding the VIII. Fl.Korps (Heeresgruppe Süd) during the Kursk operation, preferred date: 1 July 1943:
1. Which tank destroyer units were there?
2. To which command were they assigned? Arrival dates?
3. Which aircraft in which units? Status?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* 5 squadrons, in accordance with Vol. 8 of "Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg", based on BA-MA, RL2-III/725, and Sammlung Ulf Balke:
* PzJgSt/JG 51 — Hs 129 (Soll: 16, Ist: 15; Bereit: 12)
* 4./StG 1 — Hs 129 (Soll: 16, Ist: 17; Bereit: 14)
* 8./StG 1 — Hs 129 (Soll: 16, Ist: 16; Bereit: 16)
* 4.(Pz)/SG 1 — Hs 129 (Soll: 16, Ist: 17; Bereit: 14)
* 4.(Pz)/SG 2 — Hs 129 (Soll: 16, Ist: 17; Bereit: 16)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 squadrons, in accordance with Michael Holm's website "The Luftwaffe, 1933–45":
PzJgSt/JG 51 — Hs 129B-1/2 (Ist: 15) — (Witebsk [1] (?): 16.01–10.43)
4./SchG 1 — Hs 129B-2: (Ist: 17) — (Deblin-Irena, Poland: 06–07.43) (Varvarovka [2]: 07–15.07.43)
8./SchG 1 — Hs 129B-2: (Ist: 16) — (Zaporozhye: 06–02.07.43)(Mikoyanovka, Belgorod: 02.–15.07.43)
4./SchG 2 — Hs 129B-2: (Ist: 17) — (Deblin-Irena, Poland: 01–06.43)(Varvarovka [2]: 07–15.07.43)
8./SchG 2 — Hs 129B-1/2: (Ist: 10) — (Decimomanu, Italy: 05.–06.43)(Varvarovka [2]: 07–15.07.43)
PzJgStaffel/StG 2: Formed 17.06.43 in Charkow (?) from 2./Versuchskommando für Panzerbekämpfung [Ju 87G] (Unfortunately, Michael does not have aircraft type or a Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen for this unit). (Charkow-Ost: 06–07.43)
[1] Witebsk seems a bit far away from the battle area.
[2] Unfortunately, there are 4 cities named Varvarovka. Anyone know which one is meant?
Many thanks
Leo
Kursk and Panzerjäger
- Leo Niehorster
- Member
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: 21 Jan 2004, 23:07
- Location: Hangover, Germany
- Contact:
Re: Kursk and Panzerjäger
That one in question has coordinates: 50.423472, 36.408120[2] Unfortunately, there are 4 cities named Varvarovka. Anyone know which one is meant?
It's just south-east of Oktyabrskiy.
Oktyabrskiy, Belgorodskaya oblast', Russia (50.444001, 36.346194) used to be called Mikoyanovka, which was your second airport.
- Leo Niehorster
- Member
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: 21 Jan 2004, 23:07
- Location: Hangover, Germany
- Contact:
Re: Kursk and Panzerjäger
Hi Greg,
Many thanks.
Leo
Many thanks.
Leo
-
- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: 16 Mar 2013, 12:49
Re: Kursk and Panzerjäger
Hi Leo
According to Hs 129 Panzerjager! by Martin Pegg the Hs129 panzerjäger were under the control of the Führer der Panzerjäger - based at Zaporozhe.
In early June 1943 all Hs129 staffeln (except Pz.Ja.St/JG 51 at Kharkov under VIII Fliegerkorps) were withdrawn to Zaporozhe to be brought back up to full strength and held in reserve for Zitadelle. Each staffeln was increased from twelve to sixteen aircraft. During June 1943 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 was sent to Germany where the MK103 cannon was fitted. This gun had a higher rate of fire compared to the MK101 gun , but was also susceptible to jamming.
For the attack the following staffeln were based at Mikoyanovka
4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1
8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1
4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2
On 13.07.43 the Russian attack towards Orel forced a redeployment of 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1, 8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 & Pz.Ja.St/JG 51 north to Bryansk. They now came under the control of 1. Fliegerdivision.
8.(Pz)/Sch.G 2 was at Deblin-Irena where it was re-equipping after serving in Tunisia. It was not deployed to the Eastern front until August 1943.
According to Junkers Ju 87 Stukageschwader of the Russian Front by John Weal there were the two experimental staffeln, 1. & 2./Versuchskommando für Pz.Bekämpfung, each equipped with Ju 87G aircraft armed with twin 37mm guns. On 17.06.43 the 2. Staffeln was incorporated into StG 2 as Pz.J.St/StG 2 at Kharkov and the 1. Staffeln was rdesignated Pz.J.St/StG 1 at Bryansk. Other sources show both staffeln being numbered 10 at this time.
Regards
Lee
According to Hs 129 Panzerjager! by Martin Pegg the Hs129 panzerjäger were under the control of the Führer der Panzerjäger - based at Zaporozhe.
In early June 1943 all Hs129 staffeln (except Pz.Ja.St/JG 51 at Kharkov under VIII Fliegerkorps) were withdrawn to Zaporozhe to be brought back up to full strength and held in reserve for Zitadelle. Each staffeln was increased from twelve to sixteen aircraft. During June 1943 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 was sent to Germany where the MK103 cannon was fitted. This gun had a higher rate of fire compared to the MK101 gun , but was also susceptible to jamming.
For the attack the following staffeln were based at Mikoyanovka
4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1
8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1
4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2
On 13.07.43 the Russian attack towards Orel forced a redeployment of 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1, 8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 & Pz.Ja.St/JG 51 north to Bryansk. They now came under the control of 1. Fliegerdivision.
8.(Pz)/Sch.G 2 was at Deblin-Irena where it was re-equipping after serving in Tunisia. It was not deployed to the Eastern front until August 1943.
According to Junkers Ju 87 Stukageschwader of the Russian Front by John Weal there were the two experimental staffeln, 1. & 2./Versuchskommando für Pz.Bekämpfung, each equipped with Ju 87G aircraft armed with twin 37mm guns. On 17.06.43 the 2. Staffeln was incorporated into StG 2 as Pz.J.St/StG 2 at Kharkov and the 1. Staffeln was rdesignated Pz.J.St/StG 1 at Bryansk. Other sources show both staffeln being numbered 10 at this time.
Regards
Lee
- Leo Niehorster
- Member
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: 21 Jan 2004, 23:07
- Location: Hangover, Germany
- Contact:
Re: Kursk and Panzerjäger
Hi Lee,
Thank you for your detailed response.
Leo
Thank you for your detailed response.
Leo