Axis History Forum

This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by dayand Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld.

Skip to content

If you found the forum useful please consider supporting us. You can also support us by buying books through the AHF Bookstore.

Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help plea

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.

Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help plea

Postby AdlerTag1940 on 01 Mar 2007 02:19

This question i could just as easily post under modelling because that is part of my dilemma. But i will Post it here for sake of argument. Can any one in the know please tell me specifically to what extent-- Which Stuka Staffel or Gruppen participated in the Battle. I have many books and reference material...but they never go beyond say for example: "III/Stg 3 then attacked....."

What constitutes the III? My confusion lies in that i have an aircraft profile book with many Stuka images and geschwader emblems...such as 5. or 6./StG2(immelmann,)This one has a distinctive running penguin on it for a geschwader emblem...or is it staffel emblem. This unit was reportedly based in Lannion, France. Did THIS specific unit participate in the Battle? What of 2./StG2 With the Standing Terrier/schnauzer (in which i have another reference referring to this as Stab 1/StG2). Nowhwere on the internet can i find any specific information regarding unit deployment/dispersion...any ive found many sites, but no such info. Does anyone have a running order of exacting Stukageschwader info during the Battle of Britain while based in France?

Any Help That any of you Stuka exoerten can offer surely would be greatly appreciated
Thank you so much

Another i.e. The diving crow/raven of 1./Stg1....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
AdlerTag1940
Member
United States
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 01:41
Location: Michigan,USA

Postby Pips on 01 Mar 2007 11:02

Order of Battle as of 4 May 1940:

Stab.St.G.2....C/O Major Dinort....3 Ju 87B
I.St.G.2....C/O Haupt. Hitschhold....23 Ju 87B
II./St.G.2...C/O Major Enneccerus....33 Ju 87B
III./St.G.2....C/O Major von Schonborn.....27 Ju 87B

I./St.G.76....C/O Haupt. Sigel.....34 Ju 87B

Stab.St.G.77....C/O Oberst Schwartzkopff.....3 Ju 87B
I./St.G.77....C/O Haupt.von Dalwigk.....31 Ju 87B
II./St.G.77....C/O Haupt. Plewig.....30 Ju 87B

IV.(St)/LG.1....C/O Haupt. Kosl.....37 Ju 87B

III./St.G.51.... C/O Major von Klitzing....31 Ju 87B

Stab an I./St.G.1....C/O Oberst Baier....30 Ju 87B

I(St)./Tr.G.186....C/O Haupt. Hagen....36 Ju 87B



Order of Battle as of 10 August 1940:

Stab.St.G.1.... C/O Major Walter Hagan....based at Angers....2 Ju 87R
I./St.G.1....C/O Major Paul-Werner Hozzel....based at Angers....27 Ju 87R
II./St.G.1...C/O Haupt. Anton Keil....based at Pas de Calais....32 Ju 87B
III./St.G.1...C/O Haupt. Helmut Mahlke....based at Angers....26 Ju 87B

Stab. St.G.2...C/O Major Oskar Dinort...based at St. Malo...3 Ju87B
I./St.G.2....C/O Haupt. Hubertus Hitschhold....based at St. Malo....29 Ju 87B
II./St.G.2....C/O Walter Enneccerus....based at Lannion....33 Ju 87B
III./St.G.2....C/O Haupt. Heinrich Brucker....based at St. Trond....31 Ju 87B

Stab. St.G.3...C/O Oberst Georg Edert....based at Caen....2 Ju 87B
I./St.G.3....C/O Haupt. Walter Sigel....based at Caen....14 Ju 87B

Stab.St.G.77....C/O Major von Schonborn-Wiesentheid....based at Caen...3 Ju 87B
I./St.G.77....C/O Haupt. Friedrich von Dalwigk....based at Caen....33 Ju 87B
II./St.G.77.... C/O Haupt. Waldemar Plewig.... based at Caen....25 Ju 87B
III./St.G.77....C/O Haupt. Helmut Bode....based at Caen....37 Ju 87B

IV.(Stuka)/LG.1... C/O Haupt. Bernt von Brauchitsch....based at Tramcourt....35 Ju 87B[/b]
User avatar
Pips
Member
Australia
 
Posts: 945
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 08:44
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

Postby AdlerTag1940 on 01 Mar 2007 12:27

Thank you Pips for taking the time to write that...and because you did, now perhaps i can be more precise in my question?

My profile showing the 5/Stg.2-5 which would makes sense, third letter/number being red T6+AN anyway, does the 5./ mean staffel? falling under Ennecerus' whole II/Stg.2?
If so why do they display it this way? Many times in my readings as ive stated in earlier posts, authors just state II or III/Stg such and such.
I guess im just coming to find out that after all this time(since 1940) there are still some grey areas in regards to Gruppe/staffel emblems and markings and what part if any did these specific planes take in the Summer of 1940.
I wish someone like Osprey would make a book SOLEY on the Luftflotte 2 and 3 Stukas in France Summer 1940. It seems the subject is barely touched on and then on to 1941.

Anyway Thank you so much for your help in regards to this matter.
You guys are all experten in MY book!

Michael
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
AdlerTag1940
Member
United States
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 01:41
Location: Michigan,USA

Postby Pips on 02 Mar 2007 10:54

As a general rule the Staffel and Gruppe organisation in the Luftwaffe was as follows.

Three Staffel make a Gruppe, three Gruppe a Geschwader.
Staffels 1, 2 and 3 are always assigned to I./Gruppe.
Staffels 4, 5 and 6 are always assigned to II./Gruppe.
Staffels 7, 8 and 9 are always assigned to III./Gruppe.

NB there are always individual exceptions; eg a Staffel may be come under the command of another Gruppe (or even a Gerschwader) for a particular offensive, Gruppes often moved around to suit the demands on any one front, some Gruppes received additional Staffel strength, and so on.

A real beneift of the Luftwaffe was it's flexibility both organisationally and materially.

As to why authors sometimes write about a particular staffel as opposed to a Gruppe, eg 5./St.G.2 rather than II./St.G.2 it most probably reflects that the attack was only composed of Staffel strength, rather than Gruppe strength.
User avatar
Pips
Member
Australia
 
Posts: 945
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 08:44
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

Postby AdlerTag1940 on 03 Mar 2007 00:55

Thank you once again Pips....I think that last part clarified it succinctly. That was where i was lost but you pointed it out and i shouldve figured......No(5)refers to specific staffel and not a numerical interpretation of Gruppen. Sometimes its right under our nose.
User avatar
AdlerTag1940
Member
United States
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 01 Mar 2007 01:41
Location: Michigan,USA

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help plea

Postby Sonthofen on 14 Jul 2009 18:04

For those of you which read German, there is a new book with the WWII-memories of one of Sigels officers at Stuka-Geschwader 76 and 3, Heinz Migeod (DKiG-winner):

http://www.amazon.de/Kommandeur-Heinz-Georg-Wilhelm-Migeod/dp/3839110912/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247590883&sr=8-2

Image

Here is what the publisher writes about the book:

Heinz-Georg Wilhelm Migeod, geboren 1918, im gleichen Jahr, in dem sein Vater als Offizier an der Westfront fiel, berichtet in diesem Buch von seinen Erlebnissen als Soldat der Deutschen Wehrmacht. 1942 mit dem „Deutschen Kreuz in Gold“ als Offizier der Sturzkampfwaffe (Junkers Ju 87) im Deutschen Afrikakorps ausgezeichnet, schildern diese Erinnerungen ein abwechslungsreiches Soldatenleben. Nach freiwilliger Meldung 1936 zur Artillerie, folgte ab 1938 die Ausbildung zum Sturzkampfflieger. Nach Kriegsbeginn 1939 Einsätze an der Westfront, in der Luftschlacht um England, auf dem Balkan, gegen Kreta und die britische Mittelmeerflotte; sogar ein Einsatz zur Unterstützung des Irak wurde geplant. Nach zahlreichen Flügen in Rommels Afrikakorps wurde Migeod abgeschossen und kam in britisch-kanadische Kriegsgefangenschaft. Begegnungen mit großen deutschen Soldaten, wie Marseille, Rudel, Kretschmer und Migeods Geschwaderkommandeur Walter Sigel werden beschrieben. Von einem Wahrheitsliebenden der alten Generation berichtet, erfährt der Leser, dass sich in dem Bereich zwischen Soldat und Kommandeur das eigentliche Truppenleben abspielte, in fachlicher Ausbildung, soldatischem Ethos und Anstand. Hier erfuhr der Mann Erlebnisse, die eine ganze Zeitepoche mit geprägt haben.


It also contains some information about the Neuhammer Stuka-disaster http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=149604

And here some bio-data of the author from his publishers page:

Heinz-Georg Wilhelm Migeod, geboren am 24. Februar 1918 in Stettin. Frühe Jugend in Kriegersdorf/Westpreußen.
Schule bis zum Abitur in Zoppot, „Freistadt“ Danzig.
Bündische Jugend (Deutsche Freischar) 1929 bis 1934.
Dezember 1935 vorverlegtes Abitur.
Januar 1936 Reichsarbeitsdienst.
6. April 1936 Eintritt als Freiwilliger und Offiziersanwärter in das A.R. 12 in Schwerin.
November 1936 Kriegsschule Dresden, 1937 Disziplinarstrafe, zurück zum Regiment.
Unteroffizier und Geschützführer 7./A.R.12 in Rostock. Herbst 1937 Kriegsschule Hannover.
Meldung zur Luftwaffe.
Ab Juni 1938/1939 Flugzeugführerausbildung bei München, Neubiberg und Schleißheim.
Beförderung zum Leutnant 1.10.1938.
Meldung zur Sturzkampfwaffe, aber Kommandierung zur Jagdfliegerschule Werneuchen.
Nach erneuter Meldung zur Sturzkampfwaffe, November 1939 Sturzkampfschule Insterburg/Ostpreußen.
März 1940 Versetzung I. St.G. 76 (Friedensstandort Graz).
10. Mai 1940 West-Offensive Frankreich.
12. Oktober 1940 abgeschossen durch französische Curtiss über Sedan.
Juli 1940 erste Einsätze in der Luftschlacht über England, Ziele bei Southampton.
November 1940 Verlegung über Breslau, Wien, Kekschkemet, Bukarest nach Bulgarien.
6. April 1941 Angriff auf die moderne Metaxas-Linie und damit auf Griechenland. Griechenlandfeldzug, Angriff auf Kreta und Einnahme, Teilnahme an der erheblichen Reduzierung der englischen Mittelmeerflotte.
Juli/August 1941 auf Rhodos (damals italienisch).
November 1941 Verlegung nach Derna, Nordafrika, Teilnahme am ersten fehlgeschlagenen Angriff auf Tobruk, erster Rückzug der Panzerarmee Nordafrika.
Waffenlehrer Sturzkampftaktik Ergänzungs-Staffel St.G. 3 in Piacenza.
Juni 1942 wieder zum Geschwader nach Nordafrika, Staffelführer.
Einnahme von Tobruk, Vormarsch auf El Alamein nach Niederlage dort 30. Oktober 1942, Rückzug.
11. November 1942 Angriff im Morgengrauen auf englische Panzerspitzen, abgeschossen. Kriegsgefangen durch die englische 7th Arm. Division.
Sonthofen
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 29 Jun 2009 19:07

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help plea

Postby Pierre BABIN on 29 Jul 2009 09:06

Hello,

I take the liberty to use this subject about the Stukas units in 1940, to ask the following questions :

1°) I wonder if II./ St.G.1 was based in Pas de Calais (Saint-POL) in 1940, or at Angers, West of France ; and - at the opposite - if III./ St.G.1 was based at Angers or in Pas de Calais (Saint-POL) during the same time. I search any archive document which could state these positions.

2°) I search the losses list of II./St.G.1 from July to December 1940 : dates, places of loss, forming and fate of the crews ...

Many thanks in advance

Pierre BABIN

PS : I live at Angers
Pierre BABIN
Member
France
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 04 Oct 2008 18:56

Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help plea

Postby LEFFRINCKOUCKE1940 on 10 Mar 2010 18:43

Good afternoon,
I'm new in this forum, and I'm looking for information about STUKA gruppen which operated and were involed in the BATTLE OF FRANCE in 1940, and especially for STUKA attack over Dunkirk from May to June 1940I'm a modeller, and I have a STUKA JU87B model to build, and I would like to assign him the camo and fuselage code number of one of this bomber, that destroyed British and French army at this period of battle of france.
I know that the St.G2 "IMMELMANN" gruppen was involved, but I would have T6+.. code number involved, to be closer from history
Your help should be really appreciated.
Awaiting hearing from you
Have a nice day
Best regards, Jean-paul
LEFFRINCKOUCKE1940
Member
Canada
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 16:44

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help plea

Postby LEFFRINCKOUCKE1940 on 10 Mar 2010 18:48

Good afternoon,

If you're looking for LUFTWAFFE EMBLEMS, you could go to the following web site, maybe it will help

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/emblems/luf ... umbers.htm

there tons of emblems from German unit
Hope this will help
have a nice day,Best regards, jean-paul
LEFFRINCKOUCKE1940
Member
Canada
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 16:44

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help

Postby Strings on 13 Sep 2010 20:56

Could anyone provide me with some information about a specific event please? This coming weekend I am giving a very short presentation about the sinking of HMS Foylebank in Portland Harbour in July 1940 - specifically about LS Jack Mantle who won the Victoria Cross during that action. I believe the Stuka squadron involved was III./StG 51 under the Command of Major Von Klitzing. I would really appreciate any further information so I can be as accurate as possible.

Many thanks

Strings
Strings
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 13 Sep 2010 20:42

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help

Postby Larry D. on 14 Sep 2010 12:52

The level of detail you seek requires the attention of Battle of Britain specialists who focus even more narrowly on the summer battles over and along the Channel. There are a number of them on the site below and I am sure you will find someone there who can help you:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/ - Go to sub-forum "Luftwaffe and Axis Forces" and post your question there.
Larry D.
Financial supporter
United States
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 23:03
Location: Winter Springs, FL (USA)

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help

Postby Strings on 14 Sep 2010 21:52

Larry, thanks for that, I will have a look at the site you recommend.

Strings
Strings
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 13 Sep 2010 20:42

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help

Postby Christoph Awender on 15 Sep 2010 11:23

Hello

St.G.2 was closest to the Dunkirk theater and was the most assigned unit for the attacks. St.G.77 was still further away and Dunkirk was at the limit of the range.
So all Staffel variants of the T6+ will be correct.

/Christoph
User avatar
Christoph Awender
Forum Staff
Austria
 
Posts: 6357
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:22
Location: Austria

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help

Postby Larry D. on 15 Sep 2010 12:47

I think he is trying to identify which Stuka Staffel was credited with sinking HMS Foylebank. At least that's the way I read his question.

L.
Larry D.
Financial supporter
United States
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 23:03
Location: Winter Springs, FL (USA)

Re: Stukageschwader Historians(Battle of Britain) Your Help

Postby Christoph Awender on 16 Sep 2010 12:16

Thanks Larry, I was referring to this question.

LEFFRINCKOUCKE1940 wrote:Good afternoon,
I'm new in this forum, and I'm looking for information about STUKA gruppen which operated and were involed in the BATTLE OF FRANCE in 1940, and especially for STUKA attack over Dunkirk from May to June 1940I'm a modeller, and I have a STUKA JU87B model to build, and I would like to assign him the camo and fuselage code number of one of this bomber, that destroyed British and French army at this period of battle of france.
I know that the St.G2 "IMMELMANN" gruppen was involved, but I would have T6+.. code number involved, to be closer from history
Your help should be really appreciated.
Awaiting hearing from you
Have a nice day
Best regards, Jean-paul
User avatar
Christoph Awender
Forum Staff
Austria
 
Posts: 6357
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:22
Location: Austria

Next

Return to Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 3 guests