Me-262

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

The Schwalbe was a bomber killer but how was his performance against Mustangs,Thunderbolts or the last Spits?

[Erich]

Rudel und Tiger Fan......Marcus may move this posting to Third Reich......

anyway back to your question. It was quite good, but the problem is that it was overwhelmed by superior Allied escort fighters. The biggest concern is that the pilots of the 262 could not cut into the P-51 or later marks of Spitfire, since the jet was so fast and the turning radius was so wide. Many times the Schwalbe was a sitting duck as it came into land and sometimes when it took of from the runway. The only think that protected it was usually airfield fla of flakvierlings and 3.7cm singles. Top cover protection was tried by III./JG 54 flying Fw 190D-9's for Kommando Nowotny and then much later into 1945 with the Würger Staffel of red/white striped Fw 190D-9's for Galland's Circus......JV 44. JG 7 never had a high protection staffel as this Geschwader should have during it's existance.

E

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

oh ok.
But with his speed,as u said, and his four 30mm ammo he had a big advantage towards the 50. of Mustangs and thunderbolts.he could take a large tour to go back in their "ass" (sorry).I would be sad to learn that he wasn't a fighter killer.

[Erich]

The Mk 108 3cm weapon was of low velocity and did not have the long range to be used as an anti fighter type weapon. sure the minen round was devstating. all was needed was one hit on a P-51 and it would of blown the fusleage in half. The heavy wepaon was the perfect bomber killer if the pilot could get in close enough........within 100 yards and not ramm the Allied a/c.
On the other hand the .50 was extremely fast and powerful with HE and armor piercing and could cut through Luftwaffe a/c like a hot knife on butter.
You must also realize that the Me 262 against the P-51 usually had to attack out of the sun or clouds and by surprise as the P-51's always flew in squadron strength, also with a significant height advantage.

E

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

Well.I must accept it .
And what do u think about his bomber transformation? i find it so stupid (not a surprise from hitler....)

[Erich]

Well it is fact sir. I've interviewed both P-51 pilots and Me 262 pilots.

The bomber version was rather useless. A friend flying with KG 51 said they were always sitting ducks on the approach because they had to slow down so they would not overun the target.

the Arado 234 was much more suitable and was an excellent choice for a weapons platform.

E

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

In fact the excessive speed was more a inconvenient than an advantage against ground objects and fighters.
ok thx

[Erich]

For ground attack the 3cm rounds fell too short so the Pilot had to be incredibly quick. JG 7 made horsemeat out of Soviet motor transport the last 2 months of the war when the jet unit was based out of Prague. As to fighter versus fighter, same goes......
the pilot reactions had to be incredibly quick and only good for possibly one pass before really opening up the engines and escaping and then the slow glide almost into base and hopefully not being shot down from the rear by jumping P-51's.

E

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

I also think there was the same problem for the He-162 Salamander at the end of war....?

[Erich]

As far as I am aware the He 162 was never used in combat. There has been claims of it shooting down possibly 2 Allied fighters but I don;t think this is true.

E

[Ovidius]

Well.I must accept it .
And what do u think about his bomber transformation? i find it so stupid (not a surprise from hitler....)

The delay of the Me-262's appearance on the battlefield was not due to a request from Hitler to turn it into a bomber.

The delay was mostly due to the teething problems of early jet engines, which had a MTBF of only 10 hours. Until 1944 those problems could not be cured, although the airframe was available in 1942.

The airframe had been designed from the start as a "multirole" fighter-bomber. The only differences between the fighter and the bomber were four cannons for the fighter and two cannons + two hardpoints for the bomber.

The legend of Hitler impairing the production of the Me-262 was a big bullshit. This kind of thing, if ever happened, would have been largely stupidity, and this would have been surprising from Hitler, who was everything but stupid and had rich technical knowledge.

~Ovidius

[Erich]

You may also be intersted in that there were 2 Me 262A-1a's of 10./NJG 11 that had only 2 Mk 108's.......didn't need much to shred a Mosquito to pieces.

E

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

That's not what i wanted to say Ovidius.I wanted to show that Hitler's decision, to transform this fighter in a bomber,was really stupid.When the Me262 entered in service,the IIIrd Reich needed most fighters than bombers.I didn't talk about his late "appearance on the battlefield ".

[Ovidius]

And I wanted to outline the following:

The airframe had been designed from the start as a "multirole" fighter-bomber. The only differences between the fighter and the bomber were four cannons for the fighter and two cannons + two hardpoints for the bomber.

~Regards,

Ovidius

[Rudel&Tiger_fan]

Perhaps.But with some experience ,german pilots (as Adolf Galland) prefered it in a fighter.The Hitler's decision to keep bomber capascity was contrary to pilots advices...