Rudel's score

[Reckless]

[Split from "High Scorers with Panzers and Paks"]

very true.
i know he was a pilot, but hans rudel destroyed a huge amount of tanks and other equipment with his anti tank stuka,even though stukas were obsolete and outnumberd he still managed to destroy large quantities of material.

extract taken from http://www.achtungpanzer.com


During his career, Rudel flew over 2530 (around 400 of his sorties were flown in a Focke-Wulf 190 fighter plane during whichhe was credit with 11 air victories) missions and destroyed around 150 various artillery pieces, 519 tanks, around 1000 various vehicles, 70 landing crafts, 2 Lavochkin La-3 fighters, Il-2 Stormovik and sunk Battleship "Marat", 2 Cruisers and a Destroyer. Rudel was responsible for such huge damages to the Red Army that Joseph Stalin himself put a price of 100.000 rubles on his head.He flew more than 600.000km and used more than 5.000.000 liters of fuel. Hans Rudel dropped over 1.000.000kg of bombs, fired over 1.000.000 of machine gun rounds, over 150.000 20mm rounds and over 5000 37mm rounds. Rudel thought that the Lend-Lease American tanks were easier to kill than the Soviet T-34s, but he hated their machine guns, because once he was shotdown by one. Rudel was an outstanding pilot with experience,who loved to fly and destroy.He hated to take homeleave or sickleave and even when he got his leg amputatedhe was not depressed since he couldstill do what he loved - fly and destroy.During his career, Hans Rudel showed remarkable power, toughness, fearlessness, unparalleled determination and arrogance but none of his photos show any impact of the hardship of war on his face. His personal bravery was beyond belief and his place in the annals of military history thoroughly deserved, although it is important to remember the words of an American Protocol-Officer, who absolutely correctly named Rudel "the typical Nazi Officer". Rudel's famous quotation was "Verloren ist nur, wer sich selbst aufgibt" ("Lost are only those, who abandon themselves").

[Kingfish]

But if you have a list of tank and PAK kills, then I'd suggest Rudel desrves a foot note mention, his number of kills, party member, lots of missions with tin leg like Douglas Bader.

Tank busters were notorious for exaggerating kills - look at the allied claims vs actual kills by air to ground weapons in Normandy alone - but Rudel's score is beyond simply exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous.

Somewhere in this forum there is a thread that deals with Rudel's score, and in it someone went to the trouble of calculating his actual flying time at the front vs his score, the purpose being to see how many sorties it would have taken.

IIRC, it came down to something like an impossible sortie rate every day, excellent weather every day, no fighter opposition, target rich environment, etc.

[piggychops]

Tank busters were notorious for exaggerating kills - look at the allied claims vs actual kills by air to ground weapons in Normandy alone - but Rudel's score is beyond simply exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous.

Hi

Who else got a Knight's Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds?

Noel

[krichter33]

Whatever his actual "tank score" is, he still flew over 2500 combat missions, mostly with a Stuka, which is the most combat missions anyone as ever flown in history. Whatever one wants to say about his politics or personality is one thing, but German ground attack pilots were awarded based on missions flown. With 2500, Rudel deserved all the awards he received.

[Sid Guttridge]

I am something of a cynic about Rudels's (and others') precise score, but even if he was overcredited tenfold, he was still responsible for the destruction of an entire tank battalion.

And, as has been pointed out, over 2,000 sorties on an obsolescent aircraft like the Ju 87 certainly deserves recognition.

As an aside, Rudel does not hold the record for the most number of missions flown in a day. Another Ju 87 pilot, whose airfield was virtually in the front line in late November 1942, reportedly flew 14 sorties in a single short winter's day!

[krichter33]

That's interesting. Do you know the name of the Stuka pilot who flew the 14 sorties in a single day?

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi krichter,

Not off hand.

The airfield concerned was to the south of Romanian 3rd Army's front. I can probably find its name for you. The time was in late November 1942.

[Rob Romero]

The airfield concerned was to the south of Romanian 3rd Army's front. I can probably find its name for you. The time was in late November 1942.

Ahh . . . The crisis of Stalingrad

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Krichter,

The airfield concerned was Oblivskaia.

[krichter33]

Thank you!

[Larry D.]

Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian airfields undergo transliteration from the Cyrillic to the Latin alphabets and multiple results often occur. Here is the correct spelling in English and German:

Oblivskaya (RUSS) (ger. Obliwskaja) (48 32 02 N – 42 29 55 E)
General: airfield (Fliegerhorst) in W Russia 168 km ESE Millerovo and 148 km W of Stalingrad. Adjacent to major rail and road connections; in German use by late July 1942; greatly expanded during October and the first half of November 1942 to serve out the winter as one of 7 major air bases around Stalingrad. ZNr. 5047; Mq. C49293.
Remarks:
12 Aug 42: bombed - 2 x Ju 87 D-3s from II./St.G. 2 destroyed (1) or damaged (1) on the ground.
29 Aug 42: bombed – 1 x Bf 108 and 1 x W 34 from Verbindungsstaffel 64 destroyedon the ground.
7 Sep 42: bombed – 1 x Ju 87 D-1 from 2./St.G. 2 badly damaged on the ground.
20 Nov 42: strong defensive perimeter set up around the airfield using personnel from ground and Flak units (Flak-Rgt. 99).
26 Nov 42: Russian tanks break through to the airfield and destroy several bombers on the ground; Stab/VIII. Fliegerkorps ordered back to Tatsinskaya and all flying units to Morosovskaya except for a Kette of He 123s.
Operational Units: Stab/St.G. 2 (29 Jul – Sep 42); I./St.G. 2 (Aug-Sep 42); II./St.G. 2 (29 Jul – 13 Oct 42); KGr.z.b.V. 500 (Jul-Nov 42); KGr.z.b.V. 700 (Jul-Nov 42); KGr.z.b.V. 900 (Jul-Nov 42); Stab, II./St.G. 77 (Aug-Sep 42); I./St.G. 77 (Aug 42); Verbindungsstaffel 64 (Aug 42); II./St.G. 1 (Sep-Dec 42); Stab, II./Schl.G. 1 (Nov-Dec 42).
Station Commands: Fl.H.Kdtr. E (mot) 6/VI (Aug-Nov 42); Fl.H.Kdtr. E 27/IV (Nov 42)?
Station Units (on various dates – not complete): Stab/VIII. Fliegerkorps (20-26 Nov 42); elements of le.II/Feldwerftverband 20 (Aug 42 - ? ); Stab/Flak-Rgt. 99 (Nov-Dec 42); elements of gem.Flak-Abt. 236(v) (Dec 42); elements of le.Flak-Abt. 723 (Dec 42)?; elements of le.Flak-Abt. 724 (Dec 42)?; elements of le.Flak-Abt. 774 (Dec 42)?; Lw.-Bau-Btl. 1/VII (Nov-Dec 42); elements of Lw.-Bau-Btl. 24/XI (Dec 42); elements of Lw.-Bau-Btl. 7/XIII (Dec 42); Flieger-Geräteausgabestelle (mot) 102/XI (Aug 42); elements of Nachschubkolonnen-Abt. d.Lw. 1/XI (Dec 42).

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Larry,

It is perhaps worth adding that the Romanians played a role in the airfield's defence. An infantry battalion had broken out of the encirclement of General Lascar's group and apparently performed well, because its commander became the most junior non-German to be awarded the Ritterkreuz.

[Larry D.]

Hi Larry,

It is perhaps worth adding that the Romanians played a role in the airfield's defence. An infantry battalion had broken out of the encirclement of General Lascar's group and apparently performed well, because its commander became the most junior non-German to be awarded the Ritterkreuz.

Thanks for the additional information! Yes, and I'll add the Romanians in. I still have a lot of work to do on the nearly 1,000 airfields, landing grounds and forward airstrips used by the Luftwaffe in Russia. The Air Ministry A.I.2.(b) and A.I.3.(e) information is very weak when it comes to airfields in Russia, even though the information is largely derived from ULTRA. Taking Oblivskaya for example, after the Soviet tank penetration on 26 November the airfield was re-occupied by the Germans and held until some unknown date in December. I have the books with the information but I haven't had time to get into them yet.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Larry,

I have the following details from Third Axis, Fourth Ally, (p.100):

8th Cavalry Corps was now ordered south to take the German airfield of Oblivskaia, but between 26 November and 3 December it was frustrated by a single battalion of 6th Division's 15th Dorobanti Regiment, backed by intense Luftwaffe support. This was the only formed unit of the Lascar Group to break out southwards, and its commander, Major Rasconescu, became the most junior non-German recipient of the Ritterkreuz.

It appears that the Romanian battalion may have surprised the Russians at Oblivskaia by arriving from their rear. Prseumably Rasconescu's Ritterkreuz citation would give more details.

For your general interest, the Romanians had their 4th AA Brigade to the rear of Stalingrad. Part was trapped inside the pocket. A battery of Romanian-built Vickers 75mm AA guns was at Karpovka and engaged Soviet tanks on the days around 23 November. The remaining guns were then withdrawn to Pitomnik.

Outside the pocket units of 4th AA Brigade became briefly important because so much of the German 9th Flak Division had been trapped inside Stalingrad. It helped protect the supply airfields of Morozovskaia, Tazinskaya and Zverevo from late November to late December. Over 8-11 December Romanian AA guns claimed at least nine Soviet aircraft confirmed and 8 probables over these airfields. (On the other side of the coin, it should also be noted that a German report says the Romanian AA gun crews on the supply airfields were unsteady at this time.) Later in December, Romanian 75mm AA guns claimed to have knocked out five Soviet tanks at Tazinskaya for the loss of five of their own guns, before the airfield was lost.

[Larry D.]

Very interesting and useful - thanks!