Flying Mistakes

[Spitfiregirl]

This is my first time posting in the forums, so my apologies if I'm on the wrong board. Being the Luftwaffe board, it seemed the right place, but I could be wrong. Don't throw anything (hard).

Currently, I'm working on a WWII fiction novel with a particular emphasis on the experiences of a German pilot (among other threads of plot). I've read a lot of biographies, researched technical aspects etc. but there's one scene I'm having trouble constructing. I'd like to have my pilot make some mistakes his first time up in the Me 109 (with nerves and all). I'm at a loss as to what those rookie mistakes might be. Not being a pilot myself, I'm not sure what would be realistic for a junior pilot.

Any thoughts on mistakes he could make with maneuvers/mechanics/protocol?

It's the sort of thing I haven't yet stumbled upon in my reading, but I thought someone on here might have read a firsthand account that could provide some insight.

[durb]

Well, I can imagine one. The German pilot could try to escape from unfavourable combat situation vs. American P-47´s diving with his Bf 109 G / FW 190 A. The P-47 dived probably faster than in any other fighter piston engined plane and would have catched him easily. German pilots learned to know this, but sometime in 1943 it was not so obvious, that P-47 (a new plane for Germans) was unbeatable when it came to diving speed. The best method to evade attacking P 47 was to climb fast with "corksrew" manouver which left P 47 effectively behind.

If it goes to Poland 1939, German Bf 109 as well as Bf 110 were technically superior to Polish PZL fighters, but anything could happen in air combat. When Messerschmitt pilots used their faster and better armed planes to booming and zooming attack, Polish pilots were in deep trouble with their outdated and obsolete PZL fighters. However Polish with their PZL´s managed to shoot down some Bf 109´s and Bf 110´s. This was due to the mistake of some German pilots to engage PZL P 11 in a dogfight with tight turns, when more nimble Polish fighter got chances. This same mistake was done by some less experienced German Legion Condor pilots in Spanish Civil War - they went to dogfight with Bf 109 against more nimble enemy biplane fighter. At least two Condor Legion pilots were shot down by Polikarpov I-15, which was slower and technically inferior than their Bf 109.

The memoirs of fighter pilots are of course the best available material to have information about the tactical mistakes and telling what could happen during the air combat.

[Pips]

By first time in a Me109, do you mean during his training? If so here are a couple of obvious ones:
i) forgets to lower his landing gear, and either crash lands or is waved off.
ii) comes in too fast and overshoots. Has to go around again.
iii) misjudges speed and come in too slow, almost stalling the aircraft. Just makes it down.
iv) just bad judgement on landing height, cuts throttle when too high, and bounces badly during landing.

[Spitfiregirl]

Durb - thank you for those helpful ideas! I do want to include some 'mistakes' in air combat as well, so your response was exactly what I needed. I have read memoirs, but sometimes I struggle to keep track of which aircraft excelled in which technical areas. If you have any other tips (maybe Spitfire/Hurricane vs. 109?) feel free to share. Much appreciated.

Pips - I initially did mean during training, so your suggestions are great. Do you know how a pilot might under-perform when doing maneuvers (a roll, or split, or some such thing)? I'm trying to learn the technicalities of flying these aircraft (pitch, trim, etc) but sometimes my brain gets scrambled (since I'm not actually a pilot myself). Essentially, I'd like to have my pilot muck up on a maneuver, perhaps annoying the other pilots who are training.

Thanks again for these thoughts. Very helpful.

[FastFreddy]

Durb - thank you for those helpful ideas! I do want to include some 'mistakes' in air combat as well, so your response was exactly what I needed. I have read memoirs, but sometimes I struggle to keep track of which aircraft excelled in which technical areas. If you have any other tips (maybe Spitfire/Hurricane vs. 109?) feel free to share. Much appreciated.

Pips - I initially did mean during training, so your suggestions are great. Do you know how a pilot might under-perform when doing maneuvers (a roll, or split, or some such thing)? I'm trying to learn the technicalities of flying these aircraft (pitch, trim, etc) but sometimes my brain gets scrambled (since I'm not actually a pilot myself). Essentially, I'd like to have my pilot muck up on a maneuver, perhaps annoying the other pilots who are training.

Thanks again for these thoughts. Very helpful.

Wilkommen Spitfiregirl!

[LWD]

If you are looking for a classic one in combat or combat training ... target fixation.

[durb]

About the Flying mistakes I think that Mike Spick´s: "Luftwaffe Fighter Aces" tells about typical manouvers, tactics and also something about mistakes. Worth of reading, but maybe You know this book already. Other good book is Donald Caldwell´s book on JG 26 - it tells also about rather silly accident which happened to one Luftwaffe pilot. He shot down a Spitfire, which exploded and the debris went down to the English Channel. He went down to look the floating debris of Spitfire, but went too low and the wingtip of his plane hit the water. The Bf 109 sank, and he did not survive from the accident.

More common mistakes: forgotting to drop the drop tank before the combat making the plane vulnerable, heavy and "lazy" in combat. Landing accidents with Bf 109 were common due to narrow structure of landing gear, which made the landing difficult for novice pilots. The Bf 109 had some other structural problems, and many Luftwaffe pilots considered robust Focke Wulf 190 to be a better plane.

The biographies of ace pilots tell sometimes how they panicked and what mistakes they made in their first combat. Some of them have commented that despite the training they did not have any glue what they should really do in combat. But the veterans flew with them, which saved their skins.

If You are interested of the pilot, who repeatedly broke the protocol and got himself in trouble, then Hans-Joachim Marseille is the premium example. He was very interesting character with his vices. There are more than one biography about him. Maybe the book of Colin D. Heaton & Anne Marie Lewis is the best.

Gunther Lutzow deserves also attention as a character. One interesting note is, that he received pilot training in Soviet Union during early 1930´s. With other German pilot trainees he dated with Russian girls at that time. He must have been able to smile and laugh, but I have not seen a single photo, in which he smiles. Always very serious. However, he was known as a good leader and had interesting career. I do not know biography in English (only in German), but maybe something can be found from the web.

[Spitfiregirl]

Durb - again, thank you for the great suggestions. You've pointed me in the direction of a few books/pilots and I'll be looking them up. Exactly the info I needed. I'm so glad I decided to ask on here.

Too bad about the guy who went down to look at the Spitfire... the pilot in the sea got his revenge in the end, I guess!

And I had never heard of Gunther - fascinating that he trained in Russia. I hope I can find a bio on him in English.

[Spitfiregirl]

Another question, which perhaps someone can quickly answer on here:

Was it possible to get out of range on the R/T during a dogfight? How far would you have to go before you couldn't communicate with fellow pilots?

[LWD]

If the radio is working right you probably aren't going to get out of range. From what I've heard for instance the British would listen to German pilots forming up over France for raids on Britain during the BoB and in the Pacific planes communicated with their carriers at near maximum range. Now there's a chance of radio faiures or damage and failures can be intermittent.

[Mauser K98k]

In combat situations, another common novice mistake was not remembering to always "check their six". In the heat and excitement of battle (and during periods of boredom) it was an easy rule to forget, and in the Bf109 it was probably even tougher to do because of the cramped cockpit space and the poor visibility problems inherent to the design.

Rookie control screw-ups might be caused by not having stuff like prop pitch, flaps or trim correct.

[RandJS]

Hi,
Put your inexperienced pilot in a long nose Fw-190 Dora, and he could run into the plane ahead of him while taxiing on the ground due to restricted forward vision.
Rand

[Tankage]

I'm afraid my knowledge on the flying side of things is very limited. My grandfather however served in the german air section at bletchley during the war (he also spent time seconded at a y station) from what he has said they could pick up lw coms at 200 - 250 miles max, you need to remember though that the y stations had what was for the time fairly sophisticated amplification systems (it would also depend heavily on atmospherics). They could "talk to" german night fighters over germany but they were able to transmit at a much higher signal strength than the transmitters in the aircraft. He has repeatedly stated that the LW had probably the best radio discipline of all the airforces in western europe so a pilot would probably maintain radio silence if seperated (if they were lost they might try to raise a ground station but I cant guarantee this). A lapse in coms discipline on operations would be a likely rookie mistake and one that is not going to endear him to other pilots. Hope this helps.

[durb]

I think that this book is worth of reading: "Going Solo" by Roald Dahl. Tells well about the experiences of a "rookie". Also very good read as a story.