Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

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David1819
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Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#1

Post by David1819 » 14 Feb 2015, 00:01

I never knew the Germans had torpedo bombers until I was looking a Focke-Wulf variants to find there was a torpedo version

Fw 190 F-8/U3
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Did the Germans ever use this technology much? would have been handy against the formidable royal navy and destroying supply ships

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Natter
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Re: Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#2

Post by Natter » 14 Feb 2015, 01:25

Yes, of course: Luftwaffe used many torpedobombers, but the Fw 190 was not among them.

I think this is a complete list of german operational torpedobombers:
* Heinkel He 59 (only used in the spanish civil war and briefly in the North Sea at the beginning of WW2 in 1939)
* Arado Ar 95A (intended for carrier-operations, briefly used in WW2)
* Heinkel He 115A and He 115C (1940-42)
* Heinkel He 111H (standard torpedobomber, 1941-45)
* Junkers Ju 88A (standard torpedobomber, 1942-45)
* Junkers Ju 188E (1944-45)

In addition, several experimental types etc (never operational):
* Arado Ar 195 (only a few prototypes made)
* Fiesler Fi 167A (only made for export)
* Dornier Do 22 (small series, only made for export)
* Blohm & Voss Bv 140 (only a few prototypes made)
* Junkers Ju 87C (planned for use on aircraft carrier. Only a few experimental examples were made)
* Focke Wulf Fw 190A
* Focke Wulf Fw 190F
* Focke Wulf Fw 200C (one experimental aircraft)
* Heinkel He 111J (small series of experimental aircraft)
* Heinkel He 177A-5 and He 177R6
* Messerschmitt Me 410B
* Dornier Do 217E, Do 217K and Do 217M
* Fokker T-8W (captured dutch torpedobomber, but not used as such by LW)


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hucks216
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Re: Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#3

Post by hucks216 » 14 Feb 2015, 10:26

There is a book on the subject of Luftwaffe torpedo bombers and their operations if you are interested...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Luftwaffe-Aeria ... 1902109428

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Natter
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Re: Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#4

Post by Natter » 15 Feb 2015, 01:52

hucks216 wrote:a book on the subject of Luftwaffe torpedo bombers and their operations...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Luftwaffe-Aeria ... 1902109428
A good book, although it's focus is the operations, and it has limited info on the "technical" aspects besides what's included in the short appendixes.

Some other titles worth checking out:
"Waffen-Arsenal band 183 - Torpedo-Flugzeuge der Luftwaffe 1939-1945" (Manfred Griehl, 2000. ISBN 978-3790907032)
"Achtung - Torpedos Los! Der Strategische und Operative Einsatz des Kampfgeschwaders 26 - Das Torpedogeschwader der deutschen Luftwaffe im Zweiten Weltkrieg" (Rudi Schmidt, 1991. ISBN 978-3763758852)
"Seekrig aus der Luft - Die deutsche Seeluftwaffe im Zweiten Weltkrieg" (Franz Kurowski, 1979. ISBN 3 8132 0106 6)
"Der Lufttorpedo - Entwicklung und Technik in Deutschland 1915-1945" (Friedrich Lauck, 1981. ISBN 978-3763752300)


Lauck's book covers only the torpedoes (it's the best, and for most practical purposes the only, source on LT's).

I have have at least one more book on the topic in my collection (english text, from Schiffer if I remember correctly), but I can't find it now...

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sitalkes
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Re: Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#5

Post by sitalkes » 15 Feb 2015, 10:39

Were Luftwaffe torpedoes faulty like the uboat torpedoes, or were they less affected because they didn't have the same extreme air pressure changes?

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Natter
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Re: Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#6

Post by Natter » 16 Feb 2015, 00:04

The Kriegsmarine's "torpedokrise" (roughly the period from 1938-1942), was foremost related to problems with the pistols (the magnetic pistols detonated prematurly or after passing the target - if detonating at all, particulary in the northern regions with operation "weserübung" becoming especially haunted. Also, the earlier designs of the mechanical pistols had problems with angled hits, as many torpedoes "bounced off" without detonating). Another major issue was the problems with the depthmechanism wich were affected by the changing airpressure onboard the u-boats altering the internal referencepressure, causing the torpedo to (usually) run too deep (the two issues just increased the problems when combined). A smaller issue was the problems of weakly designed first-generation engines of the G7a(TI), making the engineblocks crack at high speed setting.

None of these issues were relevant to the torpedoes used by Luftwaffe though, with their main torpedoes being based on the norwegian Horten-torpedo (LT F5 / LT F5a / LT F5b) or an italian design (LT F5w).
The lufttorpedoes had other challenges though, related to the torpedos being damaged or malfunctioning due to a non-optimal entry in the water (due to the droppspeed and -angle).The norwegian officer and enginer Johan A.Bull made a very successful design around 1930: By means of a wooden air-rudder enabling the aerial torpedo to be dropped with no problems at higher speeds and higher altitudes than any competing designs at that time. Naturally his torpedodesign was highly sought after, but the germans couldn't buy it due to the limitations they had after WW1. It's a long story, but as a result of a successful intelligence-operation (were certain aspects supposedly are still secret) they managed to get hold of 30 Horten-torpedoes by using a swedish firm as "front", and later copied the design for their own use (LT F5), and further improved it (LT F5a / LT F5b).
The wooden airrudder was also the primary successfactor for the japanese aerial torpedoattacs in shallow waters at Pearl harbour, and it is suggested their device was based on Bulls original design.

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sitalkes
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Re: Luftwaffe torpedo bombers?

#7

Post by sitalkes » 16 Feb 2015, 05:07

Interesting, thanks!
The Luftwaffe had the following types of torpedo bombers in 1939-1940. Firstly there the He 59, of which 142 were built. It was used as a torpedo bomber in 1939 and as a reconnaissance aircraft in 1940. 18 December 1939, North north-west of rattray Head, the British fishing steamer Active (185 GRT) was sunk by an airborne torpedo launched by an He 59 (Ku.Fl.Gr 3./706). Secondly there was the He 115 Floatplane. The only operational airborne torpedo Staffel ready for action In July 1940 was 3/Ku.Fl.Gr 506 based at Stavanger, to be followed by 1./Ku.Fl.Gr 106 from mid August based at Norderney (on the North Sea coast of Germany) – a total of about 30 aircraft. Between August and December 1940, they used about 160 torpedos sinking about eight ships totalling around 60,000 tonnes.

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